Gearl Oil for 8 Speed

[Docwheelhorse 2,682]

Hello All and Happy Thanksgiving, Hanukkah and Holidays...

 

So I got a deal on some old Warren Petroleum Products Straight 140 gear oil (12 quarts for $15!!) I remember reading that some Wheel Horse manuals say to put 140 in the 4/8 speeds and others say 80/90. Never really understood why except that maybe the factory decided 140 was too thick for winter use.

 

Well I had to do a change on my C81 and I put the 140 in. It was hovering around freezing and it poured like STP engine treatment. I got the oil in and all was well---then it dropped down to around 15 and the tractor sat overnight. HOLY QUACAMOLE Batman! I started the motor and let the clutch out in neutral and the oil dragged the motor right down. I let it run in neutral for 5 minutes and proceeded to go to work and everything seemed good. It shifted fine and was quieter with the heavy oil in.

 

Question is---am I wrecking anything running this stuff  and should it be a summer only oil? I go through a lot of gear oil and will buy 80/90 if that's for the best.

 

Any comments / opinions would be appreciated

 

Tony

 

 

[jay1 8]

I am putting Coastal Gear Oil (Warren) 85W140 into my B80.  Tomorrow I will take it for a drive.  Hope I do not discover a problem with it

[953 nut 55,874]

The older  called for 40W Non Detergent and worked for years, I use it today. I dont think the type of oil matters all that much so long as there is good oil in it. I don't understand how running the engine in neutral would warm up the transmission, but as little heat as is generated in a transaxle while working hard I don't know that it makes a difference.    

[boovuc 1,090]

I think you hit the nail on the head.

It is thick and it will drag the engine down until it warms somewhat. (It will never warm much more than luke warm at best in the winter).

The multi-grade is much better in the winter and is more than adequate in the summer months as well.

Will it harm the trannie over time? It's doubtful but it is robbing horse-power and on an 8 horse plowing or blowing snow, it is just making the little engine work harder than it should. And that....over time.... may be more of a concern than what it is doing to the trannie.

[varosd 1,185]

just changed out the tranny oil on my 416-8. went with 85w-140 from TSC.

 

waiting for oil to drain out is almost like watching paint dry.......

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,881]

I use straight 90 wt in all the transmissions that I have...and the ones I have rebuilt for others. After I finish rebuilding one, I bench test it for about 1/2 hour while using all the gears.  I clamp a 1/3 hsp motor to the bench, run a long fan belt to the trans drive pulley, and plug it in.  The speed seems comparable to driving at full throttle.  The reason I tell you all this, is because I can look down the shifter hole with a flash light and watch what the gears do to the oil.  The transmission gears, literally, throw the oil all over the inside of the trans, and I have done some of these transmissions in the winter months.  This is how the parts of the transmission, that do not sit in the oil, get lubricant...like your shift forks, all of your bearings, the axles and your fork gears...(keep in mind that oil has to get through the #1533 bearings and run the axles to lube the outer axle bearings).  With all that being said, I am not sure using the thicker oil, especially in winter, gives proper lubrication.  I would think there is no way I would want an oil viscosity in my trans that bogs down the engine.  Just my thoughts on it.

 

What do you guys think about mixing equal parts of Tony's 140 wt oil with 40 wt oil and thinning it to 90 wt???

[meadowfield 2,595]

In my C-101 I use 10w40, based on the fact it is good enough for my car... The tranny was rebuilt 3 years show and other than its a little noisier, all seems good.

[squonk 41,413]

Don't forget to factor in all the advancements in oils thru the years. When these trannies were built, especially the older ones oil was crap compared to now. I would use a cheap synthetic if it was me. The cold weather doesn't effect it as much and we aren't talking a bout a high speed high stress application. Heck the trans in my Power King was designed in the 40's and holds a 1/2 pint. I have a mix of 90 wt. SYN, and Lucas oil stabilizer in it. Kings are known for gear grinding and I have almost no issues since I've gone to that. 

[buckrancher 2,694]

I use  80/90wt in almost all of my gear transmissions I do have amsoil servere gear 75-110wt in some of my show tractors

but they never get run in the winter which is to bad as that is probably the best all around oil you can get for all year use

just a little pricey at $15.00 a quart

 

Brian

[Docwheelhorse 2,682]

Hi-I know the trans generates almost no heat.... but what I can tell you is that this stuff was THICK and almost solidified. So the trans in neautral started "grinding" up the oil--yah that sounds terrible using the word "grinding". But the trans worked fine and after 5 minutes of the motor turning the oil over it stopped bogging the engine down. I'm not going to put 140 in any of my winter stuff from now on, if we get any type of warmer weather I will  drain it out and put in 80/90.

 

Thanks for all the info/comments

 

Tony

[MaineDad 85]

I always use Lucas Heavy Duty 80/90W gear oil year round in my 8 speeds 

[Antiquated 3]

So the oil gets sloshed around in the transmission while idling in neutral? I wouldn't think that'd be the case but I'm no pro. What's moving in there while idling in neutral and not moving?

[Docwheelhorse 2,682]

HI--well the input shaft is turning and I would have to believe that the first set of stationary gears on the front shaft are turning. Neutral would be achieved by not meshing the gears from the front shaft to the back. So in theory half the transmission is turning over in neutral. At least that's the way I think it is...

 

Tony

[HorseFixer 2,012]

I use  80/90wt in almost all of my gear transmissions I do have amsoil servere gear 75-110wt in some of my show tractors

but they never get run in the winter which is to bad as that is probably the best all around oil you can get for all year use

just a little pricey at $15.00 a quart

 

Brian

 

10-dash 4 

[KATO 115]

another option could be a 10w40 or 20w50 motorcycle engine oil

as they have common transmission and engine oil... synthetic of course.

I would imagine if its good enough for the kind of horsepower they make its 

more than good enough for our tractors

[JERSEYHAWG / Glenn 4,497]

My 2 cents. I was just reading the owners manual for my 1988. 416-8. Says right in there SAE 90. I am changing it today. That's what's going in it.

Edited December 21, 2013 by JERSEYHAWG / Glenn

[stevasaurus 22,881]

Actually, when you have the clutch pushed in...nothing in the transmission is turning.  When the clutch is out and you are in neutral...what is turning inside the transmission is the input shaft, the cluster gear and the reverse idler...all 3 of which continue to throw oil around.  The fork gears, differential, and 11/44 gear are stationery.  

[JERSEYHAWG / Glenn 4,497]

My 2 cents. I was just reading the owners manual for my 1988. 416-8. Says right in there SAE 90. I am changing it today. That's what's going in it.

UPDATE: My brother stopped over. He picked up my gear oil. SAE 85W-90. Soooooo that's what went in it. Lol

Glenn

[jay1 8]

just completed changing the axle fluid with 85w-140.  Took a little longer than forever to get that oil into the axle fitting

[Antiquated 3]

I'm running Valvoline 85w140 syn blend because my manual calls for 90w140. That stuff is way too thick when it's cold out. The engine bogs down and it runs like crap in the cold. The MDS says the pour point off this stuff is +5 degrees F which is unacceptable because it got down to near that temperature the other day. I'll be switching to a full synthetic 140 as soon as I can. Valvoline's pours down to about -40 degrees and it will still satisfy my manual's requirement.

[jay1 8]

Yes, I know.  could not find 90w140, and the feedback indicated many substitutes--but I suspect they all would have the same issue.  I kept the 85w140 in the house until I was about to pour it.  So the temp of the oil was about 70 F.  Still it would only go in a shot glass at a time. I did it over 2 days to get the 2 quarts into the system.  Even at 50 F outside temp, it is slower than slow pouring in.  The problem is that the dip stick hole is not designed to release air and also accept fluid at the same time, so while filling the air within cannot escape easily.  The air in the system gets trapped and does not allow the new oil to be added very easily.  That is my analysis.

[520HC 208]

The way to fix that is take one of the bolts out of the top of trans. next to fill tube. That allows the air to escape as your oil goes in.

[jay1 8]

The way to fix that is take one of the bolts out of the top of trans. next to fill tube. That allows the air to escape as your oil goes in.

Did that, but it did not help.  Then I discovered that the bolt hole does not go all the way threw to the oil chamber on the B80.

[Antiquated 3]

I presume using a gear oil with a limited slip additive included will have no ill effect on the transmission? Right?

[hm12460 53]

I ran Ford Motorcraft 75W-140 synthetic in my last 8 speed with good results. You guys won't tell on me now, will you?