8 speed transaxel, hit a solid wall

[groundhog47 347]

Input shaft bearing excessive wobble. Hubs were exposed 1/2' to 3/4'" and rusted.

 

After one week on and off heat and penetrant and brushing exposed ends as clean as could finally got left hub off. Second week and right hub has moved about an 1/8". Is possible to pull apart case and disassemble differential where axel can be pulled out of case. From IPL's I see some have snap rings, some pins. Do not know model number only that is eight speed, shorter axels 1 1/8", and short dip stick on top like on my C-120. Have seen a post where cautions pulling/ hammering outward on axel as may pull from differential.

 

Anyway if can get that axel/hub in press, problem solved, and too large for press now.

 

Any positive input appreciated, my first transmission tear down attempt! 

 

  

Edited November 21, 2013 by groundhog47

[Lars 526]

yes it is possibel to do that.. to get it apart  but when you put it together you need to have the shallow side of the tranny down

[Bill Allert 68]

Try what they call a collet bearing remover. The tool has 2 halves that would fit underneath the hub. If you go to Harbor Freights website you will see a bearing puller set that has these. Very handy tool. I just don't know if the 4 inch collet will be big enough for you, you might have to get a 6 inch collet.

 

If this idea interests you, I can try mine behind a hub to see if it fits.   Bill

[sorekiwi 761]

I have pulled a trans apart with the hub still on one of the axles.  But I don't remember which one was stuck.

 

Once it was separated it was possible to pull the diff apart and remove the axle with the stuck hub (in a press).

 

If the hub is as stuck as it sounds, then pounding on the hub can have bad consequences.  Best case scenario, the snap ring jumps out of its groove and the axle comes out.  Worst case scenario the snap ring damages the edges of its retaining groove in the axle and will not retain the axle any more. 

[groundhog47 347]

I have pulled a trans apart with the hub still on one of the axles.  But I don't remember which one was stuck.

 

Once it was separated it was possible to pull the diff apart and remove the axle with the stuck hub (in a press).

 

If the hub is as stuck as it sounds, then pounding on the hub can have bad consequences.  Best case scenario, the snap ring jumps out of its groove and the axle comes out.  Worst case scenario the snap ring damages the edges of its retaining groove in the axle and will not retain the axle any more. 

Having pounded on the inner most part of the hub, even with back pressure held on puller I felt as if any moment would pull out the whole thing. Fear of unknown damage, redirected to plain heat, pull, penetrant, and arm/shoulder talk back. I believe I'll give the separation a try now with this good advice. Thanks   

[groundhog47 347]

yes it is possibel to do that.. to get it apart  but when you put it together you need to have the shallow side of the tranny down

Thanks friend, luckily got the left half side hub off. Believe that is half that needs removed first.

[groundhog47 347]

Try what they call a collet bearing remover. The tool has 2 halves that would fit underneath the hub. If you go to Harbor Freights website you will see a bearing puller set that has these. Very handy tool. I just don't know if the 4 inch collet will be big enough for you, you might have to get a 6 inch collet.

 

If this idea interests you, I can try mine behind a hub to see if it fits.   Bill

Thanks Bill, I'm using a large bearing separator with a bar puller attached forcing against axel and bearing on flat back of hub. I tighten till feels as if my arm comes outa socket, then hold in and beat till sound changes, with heat and penetrant intermingled. I fear a cheater bar might be to much for the hub. I would like to see what exactly ya got. I know if it fits directly onto axel behind hub it would be less likely to kill a hub that I so dearly wish to recycle. Will try to look at oneif can find. Thanks    Let me know please if this is it, as using a bigger one like this but won't reduce down to hub till side puller bars hit od of hub

Edited November 22, 2013 by groundhog47

[stevasaurus 22,872]

Piece of cake to take off the other side first and disassemble the differential to pull out the left axle.    I did that on my first transmission as well...small world.  I had to do that on a 3 piece RJ tranny also, and that had roll pins holding on the axle gears.

[Bill Allert 68]

That is the kit I was referring to. Sounds like you have a similar set up? The exposed portion of the axle must be as clean as possible. If you have taken out the set screw/bolt keep the hole facing up and apply some medium heat to the center of the hub. add Liquid Wrench into hole after taking the heat away. Let this sit for a while & try puller again when cool. Sometimes it takes an impact gun on the center screw.

 

When your heating up the hub you have a limited time to work because the axle will soon reach that temp. also. Hope some of this makes sense! Bill

[groundhog47 347]

Update: Right hub still on, transmission partially disassembled, and probable malfunction detected. The high/low gear has some gnawed off teeth on small gear and input shaft bearing went to outer space. Googly, oogly, plain gnasty    pictures of guts.lks, Good eye folks does reverse gear look gnawed, looked better than picture? Will be searching for detent shift rail ball, high/low gear, input shaft bearing (outer cage still in) and  possibly an input shaft so far. Presume would be safe to power wash as long as finished take down and dried out.

[stevasaurus 22,872]

Gerry, I thought your reverse idler gear looked alright...it is supposed to have a bevel on the teeth on one side and should face the same way when you put it back together.  Send a PM to racinfool40 (Mike)...he will have any parts that you need to replace.  You could power wash it,but you may lose a few needles in those bearings and have to replace them.  Nice mess isn't it???  Way too much fun.

 

This will not be easy, but I"ll bet you can get an open end wrench on the head of the bolts holding the differential together.  You will have to wrap the threads of the bolt to hold it up, after you get the nut off, so you can turn the differential to get to the next one.  You can then unwrap the bolt threads, lift out the left axle and left differential housing, then the pinions and bull gear, you can then get at the "C" clip holding the axle gear on the axle.  The axle and hub will come out the bottom side after that.

 

Great pictures...they show why I am not a huge fan of flushing a transmission...and thinking you have it cleaned out.

Edited November 30, 2013 by stevasaurus

[squonk 41,378]

I bet it stunk the shop up too! 

[groundhog47 347]

I bet it stunk the shop up too! 

Luckily was outside, and feel it must have been deodorized by rain infusion. Unknown if it ever had a boot. I really just wanted a unit I could learn on,   looks as if I'll be in school for some time.  

Edited December 5, 2013 by groundhog47

[groundhog47 347]

Gerry, I thought your reverse idler gear looked alright...it is supposed to have a bevel on the teeth on one side and should face the same way when you put it back together.  Send a PM to racinfool40 (Mike)...he will have any parts that you need to replace.  You could power wash it,but you may lose a few needles in those bearings and have to replace them.  Nice mess isn't it???  Way too much fun.

 

This will not be easy, but I"ll bet you can get an open end wrench on the head of the bolts holding the differential together.  You will have to wrap the threads of the bolt to hold it up, after you get the nut off, so you can turn the differential to get to the next one.  You can then unwrap the bolt threads, lift out the left axle and left differential housing, then the pinions and bull gear, you can then get at the "C" clip holding the axle gear on the axle.  The axle and hub will come out the bottom side after that.

 

Great pictures...they show why I am not a huge fan of flushing a transmission...and thinking you have it cleaned out.

Yessiree on the occasional flush. I do believe this unit doubled as a rain bucket also. After posted last went out an kinda cleaned gears (thanks for mention which way up reverse) and could see probably just bevel cut on reverse. I feel as you that can probably attack bolts the way you described, and amazed with all the sludge how easily the differential pinions turned. One of the needle bearings in/on input gear shaft shed it's needles. The ones left felt gritty!!    

Edited December 5, 2013 by groundhog47

[groundhog47 347]

Update 2: finally got the right hub off, separated cas and removed what could, disassembled differential, removed right axel snap ring, and worked it out of case. Placed axel and hub in 20 ton press and pumped till wouldn't, nothing moved. Applied high heat and sounded like a shotgun went off. Thought hub broke/cracked, nope, moved about 1/16". After 5 or 6 more booms it sated easing and came out. Now at least I can finish starting to clean and inspect for what ails the ole boy. Whewy, what a mess. 

[stevasaurus 22,872]

Fantastic Gerry...did you jump when it went BOOM???  I know I would have.    I think you have it by the short hairs now.

 

Take a look at your "C" clips.  I think they have a flat (sharp) side and the other side is like rounded....the flat side faces away from the axle gear on each axle when you put it back together.   It is a good idea to replace the nuts on the differential bolts also.

[groundhog47 347]

Fantastic Gerry...did you jump when it went BOOM???  I know I would have.    I think you have it by the short hairs now.

 

Take a look at your "C" clips.  I think they have a flat (sharp) side and the other side is like rounded....the flat side faces away from the axle gear on each axle when you put it back together.   It is a good idea to replace the nuts on the differential bolts also.

I was so excited it moved I don't remember, but prob did. Will check the clips. I glanced to see if they were warped/cupped from all the pounding outward on the hub. Feared would pull axle out of differential. The clip and axle groove seemed ok and still have left side in/on diff case end. Found my "lost" detent ball in the sludge along with a bunch of the needles from the input shaft gears. 

Edited December 14, 2013 by groundhog47

[woodchuckfarmer 333]

I would replace all the differential bolts just to be on the safe side. there not that expensive.....Wayne

[pfrederi 17,889]

Differential bolts and locking nuts check McMaster they have Grade 9

 

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-cap-screws/=ps3rsb

 

http://www.mcmaster.com/#hex-nuts/=ps3sfu