753 restore!!

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

NO ETCH PRIMER OVER ANYTHING BUT BARE METAL.  NOT EVEN OVER BODY FILLER.

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

 I though a new one was 320 and a worn out one wouldn't be finer than 400.

That may be but the 400 grit does not last forever either. Do not view scuff pads any differently than wet/ dry paper. Both wear out. Scuff pads do not last indefinetly.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Save Old Iron

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

NO ETCH PRIMER OVER ANYTHING BUT BARE METAL.  NOT EVEN OVER BODY FILLER.

Sorry, I should explain as you are trying to learn.

 

(Acid) Etch primers contain ... acid!

 

Acid is incompatable with most if not all body fillers that work off a 2 part curing action. If you read up on the etch primer or body filler data sheets, etch primer is highly discouraged as a covering for all but the smallest areas of body fillers. Manufactuers will allow etch primer to be sprayed on bare metal areas that contain body work but not recommend their product be sprayed over ANY fillers present on the same bare metal panel.

 

Best thing to keep in mind is the mental picture of acid etch primer "melting" body fillers. Not exactly correct but none the less a useful picture to keep in mind.

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

The best lesson anyone gave me in paint prep was a friend who does autobody for a living. He is a third generation owner of a successful local business. When I had questions on what cleaners to use, my friend would encourage me to try to clean a glass pane with whatever "cleaner" i thought was a "good idea" to use. You quickly learn that not all solvents are actually good degreasers and some are very poor cleaners. Try cleaning the inside of your car windshield with mineral spirits and take a drive into the setting sun. You will quickly learn not all solvents that sell for $5 a gallon make good cleaners.

 

Acetone is very quick to evaporate and does not make a very good cleaner. The residue does not have enough time to dissolve in the acetone, staty suspended in the acetone and then get wiped away by a (hopefully) clean lint free wipe.

 

Once again I would suggest experimenting by cleaning your test piece(s) in clean water containing Dawn dishwashing liquid to remove any residual waxes. Do a final rinse in clear water.

I have always found 91% isopropanol alcohol a great final wipe before topcoating. Use 99% if you can find it locally in a drug store.

[zanepetty 117]

I didn't mean etch primer I just meant use 2k to mist over everything to give the paint that matte, etched look so hopefully scotch bringing wouldn't be needed..I like the idea of the alcohol. I'll get some. If I get the cross fire top coat to match my primer, will I need to scotch brute everything again? It recommends 600 grit sanding primer before applying top coat..

Edited December 9, 2013 by zanepetty

[clintonnut 126]

I commonly do hoods with a high-building 2k urethane primer then Valspar over top. I usually finish sand with 400. I have always used Lacquer thinner with valspar and never had an issue. Enamel hardener helps too.

 

Charlie

[zanepetty 117]

I used hardener. I have no idea what went wrong. Just my good luck. Do you scotch brite the cast?

Edited December 9, 2013 by zanepetty

[zanepetty 117]

Got my starter ready for paint today..again!

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

Zane,

 

I don't want to step on anything you have arranged with Steve but I am curious on what your next plan is for painting the stripped parts.

 

In regards to the picture you have in your last post with the lift lever showing the grey primer and the red topcoat, 2 comments.

 

First, the red topcoat abraded off onto the sanpaper looks very "gummy" and clogging the grit of the paper. I would not have expected a gummy appearance from the topcoat if you had added a hardner to the topcoat.

 

Second, the area on the lift lever where the lever meets the pivot, the topcoat looks like it is peeling off in strands leaving the primer intact. Did the topcoat just peel off that easily?

[zanepetty 117]

That's after I put paint stripper on it I didn't put any on the lift arm. Just starter. it dried really nicely it just had no adhesion. I'm stripping all those parts down and doing it all again and I guess try to help out fellow horsemen with my valspar paint! And yes it peeled off THAT dang easy. It was literally no trouble at all just to flake it right off.

Edited December 10, 2013 by zanepetty

[rmaynard 15,580]

Is it me, or does the primer on the lift handle look shiny? An oil based paint won't stick very well to a shiny surface.

 

I would take that lift handle and rough it up with 400 grit paper. Wash it with mild soap and water, rinse it thoroughly, let it dry, then clean it again with grease and wax remover, let it dry, and paint it again. See if it doesn't stick.

[zanepetty 117]

You're right Bob. It is shiney. But my hood and fenders are too and I wet sanded them with 400 :/ I will rough them up with a brand new scotch brite pad and I'll buy the automotive enamel.??

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

and I'll buy the automotive enamel.??

and the correct FAST reducer for the ACME Finish 1 topcoat.

 

Now we are getting somewhere!

[stevasaurus 22,841]

SOI...no problem here...I really do not know much about paint.  Zane and I were just discussing what options were available and we were thinking of trying a few things on a couple of small parts.  I am glad that you and Bob and Charlie are involved in this thread.  I recently picked up a touch-up gun and am planning on trying it out in the spring.  I am just going to sit back and learn here...and be moral support.  We do not want Zane taking a Sawsall to his horse.        Thanks guys

[zanepetty 117]

Ya. I will be dong all of the stuf you just said soi! The acme brand paints. Steve, I'm glad we talked on the phone about it because I was ready to at least QUIT for a long time I'm back o track though.

Edited December 10, 2013 by zanepetty

[zanepetty 117]

Should I etch prime my stuff again today or just the DTM 2k. I'm thinking it would be fine to do the 2k only. Plus I only have one paint gun so it would be a lot quicker. Id hate to leave etch primer residue in the gun when I'm spraying the 2k.. what do you think guys?

[rmaynard 15,580]

Etch primer is only to be used on bare metal. I don't use it myself. I found that epoxy primer sticks to pretty much anything, and it doesn't have to be sealed like etching primer does.

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

Ahhh grasshopper, the time has come to demonstrate what you have learned from all the time your teachers have invested on your behalf.

 

Take off the WH cheerleaders outfit and put on the lab coat (with plastic pocket protector included). Temporarily dial back the over-enthusiasm to a more task focused level and put together a mental 'flight plan' on the steps needed to achieve a successful painting session.

 

I'll pretend I didn't hear you don't clear out your gun from primer to top coat.

[zanepetty 117]

Everything is bareetal, Bob. Soi, I do clean the gun out before top coat. I even do between primers my question was do I really need to spray etch primer on these small pieces when my 2k high build says DTM (direct to metal? If so, I'm always afraid I'll miss some etch primer in my gun and it will be spraying 2k through the etch inside my gun. 20 mins flash time isn't much to clean a gun well and mix new paint all by yourself so should I attempt the etch primer again as well?

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

Etch is not required. 

 

It is a low cost yet highly effective corrosion inhibiting option. 

 

What brand etch are you using?

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

and thanks for the update on the gummy residue on the sandpaper

[rmaynard 15,580]

Flash time and pot life are not the same. Flash time is the time that is required for the solvents to start evaporating and the paint to start to set on the piece you are painting. Pot life is the time that you can keep the paint in the gun before it starts to harden. Most paints have a pot life of at least a couple hours. You are not going to have any problem with etch primer doing any damage in your gun, and even a quick rinse of the gun with lacquer thinner is going to remove most of the etch primer.

Edited December 10, 2013 by rmaynard

[zanepetty 117]

Yes. I was just worried about small amounts that may be left in the gun. But I called martin senour and they said if the bare metal area is bigger than your hand it needs etch and the also said if a little etch gets on some primer where you're touching up its no big deal :)

Edited December 10, 2013 by zanepetty

[zanepetty 117]

I got ALOT painted today. Camera isn't working good right now but I've got two pics of my frame. I got a sag as you can see. Of course it would be on the outside so EVERYONE can see. The rest of it looks really great. As you can see on the front of the frame in the other picture I got very little or no orange peel in most places.

Edited December 16, 2013 by zanepetty

[clintonnut 126]

Paint looks good now! Just takes a little bit of trial and error.

 

AFAIK, Etch primer was produced to create an adhesion to chemically treated bare metal. What I mean is, in the automotive world, Cars have a galvanizing on the metal and the etch primer is meant to create a strong bond to the plating with out damaging the plating like extensive sanding would do. 

 

If I were you, hand sanding out with 220 grit on bare metal followed by a DTM high build would be good. High build fills in some nasty pits and scratches so the scratches left by 220 grit will be invisible. 

 

Also, with most primers, they will say what the "flash time" is. The paint I used on my truck was a 24 hour flash time. If I did not top coat the existing paint within 24 hours, it had to be sanded to create a surface suitable to bond another coat. If I waited more than 24 hours the paint would glaze over and be smoother than it was. I do whatever I can to spray within a flash time so I don't have to sand besides any present imperfections I may find. Usually as soon as the material is dry to the touch, you can top coat. If tacky or too soft, the paint will take longer to cure and there is a risk for a blistering effect. When I say blistering effect, imagine a desert where the ground is all cracked and opened up. That's what it will look like!

 

Charlie

Edited December 17, 2013 by clintonnut