K241 or K301? I'm confused....

[jrc0528 20]

A couple months ago I picked up a C-1?? with what appears to be a 10HP K241.  While cleaning it up and tuning it I see the block is stamped K301 above the PTO.  Did they use a 301 block for both engines or is this a K301 with the wrong fan shroud??  Also it has the deep oil pan which fit down between the frame rails.

 

I was going to measure the stroke of it to tell, however I found the spark plug hole is off to the side enough to obscure access to the top of the piston.

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,083]

I think they used the same block. I have a 10hp Kohler Magnum with the same stampings.

Mike...........

[rmaynard 15,308]

Some K241 blocks were marked with the K301 mark. They are the same casting with a different bore. But just to confuse the issue, some K241 blocks did not have the K301 mark. Your K241 should be marked K241AS indicating special oil pan. The blocks with the small pans cannot be interchanged with the blocks with the large oil pan.

Edited October 19, 2013 by rmaynard

[meadowfield 2,570]

My C-101 is the same...

[rmaynard 15,308]

To clarify what I said above, your engine should be labeled as a K241AS. The block won't be marked that way.

[Lagersolut 630]

The block on my '79 C-101 is stamped - K301 - the id decal/ owners manual has it K241AS

 

Can someone ( I'm confused with this also ) cite the specific differences in the oil pans - why were some of these engines  AS and others just S - my engine mounts to a steel plate that sits on isolation mounts to the frame - the oil pan protrudes through the mounting plate .......most of the parts lists out there don't recognize the AS when looking mine up.

 

Can you tell just by looking at the pan on a engine it's an AS ?

[Fordiesel69 258]

Some kohler 10HP were K301 blocks that were just not bored out all the way to 12HP.  So that means you can over bore it if you want. 

Edited October 19, 2013 by Fordiesel69

[rmaynard 15,308]

Can someone ( I'm confused with this also ) cite the specific differences in the oil pans - why were some of these engines AS and others just S - my engine mounts to a steel plate that sits on isolation mounts to the frame - the oil pan protrudes through the mounting plate .......most of the parts lists out there don't recognize the AS when looking mine up.

Can you tell just by looking at the pan on a engine it's an AS ?

The "AS" version was specifically designed to fit into the cradle. Since the cradle sits higher than the frame, a standard oil pan would cause the engine and thereby the crankshaft to also sit higher. So a lower profile pan was created to allow the crank to be at the proper height. To allow for more oil, the pan was extended through the cradle and between the rails of the frame.

Internal parts are all the same. Only difference is the block and pan.

You can look at an AS and instantly tell the difference from a large pan model. Main difference is that it won't sit on a bench without falling over.

[oldredrider 2,548]

Getting to basics and really answering your question, Kohler used the same casting for some of the 10 hp and 12 hp engines...K241 and K301. K241 (10hp) engines stamped K301, as mentioned above, can be bored to K301 specs.

Edited October 19, 2013 by oldredrider

[Lagersolut 630]

 

Can someone ( I'm confused with this also ) cite the specific differences in the oil pans - why were some of these engines AS and others just S - my engine mounts to a steel plate that sits on isolation mounts to the frame - the oil pan protrudes through the mounting plate .......most of the parts lists out there don't recognize the AS when looking mine up.

Can you tell just by looking at the pan on a engine it's an AS ?

The "AS" version was specifically designed to fit into the cradle. Since the cradle sits higher than the frame, a standard oil pan would cause the engine and thereby the crankshaft to also sit higher. So a lower profile pan was created to allow the crank to be at the proper height. To allow for more oil, the pan was extended through the cradle and between the rails of the frame.

Internal parts are all the same. Only difference is the block and pan.

You can look at an AS and instantly tell the difference from a large pan model. Main difference is that it won't sit on a bench without falling over.

 

 

Thank you , now let me ask this , was the cradle originally a design to limit vibration that they got away from because it really didn't and through my rebuild my engine guy told me I'm at .030 next step is a sleeve .

 

What would be the necessary changes to make a  10 hp AS  k301 block a 12 hp ?  

[Don1977 604]

The 10 HP has a  2 7/8" stroke with a 3 1/4" bore.  The 12 HP has a 3 1/4" stroke with a 3 3/8" bore.  You would need a piston, rod, and crank shaft. The valves have different numbers also don't have any information on the difference. 

[Fordiesel69 258]

 

 

Can someone ( I'm confused with this also ) cite the specific differences in the oil pans - why were some of these engines AS and others just S - my engine mounts to a steel plate that sits on isolation mounts to the frame - the oil pan protrudes through the mounting plate .......most of the parts lists out there don't recognize the AS when looking mine up.

Can you tell just by looking at the pan on a engine it's an AS ?

The "AS" version was specifically designed to fit into the cradle. Since the cradle sits higher than the frame, a standard oil pan would cause the engine and thereby the crankshaft to also sit higher. So a lower profile pan was created to allow the crank to be at the proper height. To allow for more oil, the pan was extended through the cradle and between the rails of the frame.

Internal parts are all the same. Only difference is the block and pan.

You can look at an AS and instantly tell the difference from a large pan model. Main difference is that it won't sit on a bench without falling over.

 

 

Thank you , now let me ask this , was the cradle originally a design to limit vibration that they got away from because it really didn't and through my rebuild my engine guy told me I'm at .030 next step is a sleeve .

 

What would be the necessary changes to make a  10 hp AS  k301 block a 12 hp ?  

 

 

 

Regarding the block, if you have a great 10hp crank / rod, and you just have a bad piston / bore, you can overbore to a 12hp, and leave the crank / rod alone.  You may need to have the shop bore the wrist pin hole out in the rod just a bit.  Usually not though.  After all of this you will **not** have a true 12hp engine.

 

If you want a true 12hp engine, just source a crank and 12hp rod, and have the cylinder bored out to 12hp standard size.  The K301 blocks bored for 10hp essentially have 7 rebuilds possible, while all others have only 3 without resleeving.  

[leeave96 487]

Just to muddy the water a little more, there were 3 engine blocks used as I understand it.  One was the standard block with deep oil pan - like Wheelhorse and Simplicity used, one was for a John Deere and the third was for IH Cub Cadets.

 

Here is a link showing some of the differenced:  http://cubfaq.com/blocks.html