Vinylguy 4,674 #126 Posted December 29, 2013 I am really enjoying your 416 adventure posts. The videos are great. I noticed your favorite work boots may need a repair soon too! #1 is still my favorite but #2 is closing fast 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martin 2,132 #127 Posted December 29, 2013 the fun has only just started with #2......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vinylguy 4,674 #128 Posted December 29, 2013 the fun has only just started with #2......... Maybe we better start incorporating unit numbers somewhere on the decals before your growing fleet of 416's gets unmanageable. I can not wait to see what decal ideas you will challenge me with this time. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martin 2,132 #129 Posted January 24, 2014 going to start another chapter in this story. I've been stripping the 416-8 and cleaning up parts. its going to get a rebuild. right now i just have a bunch of painted parts laying around and before i can start assembly i need to redo the trans. i don't know how it runs as i never got to drive this one. it looks ok and the oil is a good color. but i want to paint it and make it look as nice as the rest, so its been torn down and will get seals and any bearings that needs replaced. split the case tonight and heres how the inside looks. nothing i can tell out of the ordinary, some gears look like they have been crunched a few times, but i think with a clean up all are good. bearings look good as well, so looks like just new seals and a case gasket. would like some opinions on condition from some of the trans gurus on here (you know who you are)...... if you guys need more pics of the individual gears they are all out on the bench now so i can get some more pics next time......... also, has anyone come across these numbers on the top of the right hand axle tube before, looks like some date code? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jake Kuhn 1,556 #130 Posted January 24, 2014 Looks like your off to a good start martin, the tranny looks pretty good to me, but I don't know that much about them. I have seen the date codes in other spots on the case, but have never seen them on the axle like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sorekiwi 761 #131 Posted January 24, 2014 I've never seen a date stamp like that before Martin. The gears look Ok to me. If there is a burr or a rough spot anywhere then I would polish that spot a bit, otherwise I'd leave them alone. I would pull the ball bearings out of the case and have a good look at them. I nearly got caught on one trans when the bearing looked good from the inside of the case, but the other side of one of the balls was pitted right through the hardening. I still have that bearing, I need to take some pics to show how easily you can get fooled. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,841 #132 Posted January 24, 2014 I agree Martin...that trans looks brand new. Maybe pull enough of the gears out to take a look at the hi/lo shift part that likes to bend or break. The parts you have to pull out to look are the same as the 3/4 speeds...maybe just have to lift out the cluster gears and shaft. I hope the one I am getting from SmokinJoe looks like that inside. Beautiful trans Martin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bowtiebutler956 650 #133 Posted January 24, 2014 I'm no expert, but I've had one apart before, and that one looks really good inside. Matt Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sorekiwi 761 #134 Posted January 24, 2014 Since its already open.... I like to give the shift rails a little tickle. Clean out the bores that the rails slide on and the ones that the balls and springs live in. Polish the shafts (scotchbrite) and check for burrs on the sides of the grooves where the detent balls sit. Often you will get a little burr where the ball rolls out of its groove. A few minutes work there can make the trans shift a whole lot nicer. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martin 2,132 #135 Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) got the trans down a little more. heres some more pics...... some of the gears have some burrs from grinding the gears, they will need some tidying up and the shift rails might need just a tickle......... Edited January 25, 2014 by Martin 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martin 2,132 #136 Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) finished taking apart the trans. found one bad axle bearing, not worn out but damaged on the inside end of it. almost looks like it was damaged by the end of the axle while inserting the axle through the bearing. all i can say is it wasn't me, and this trans doesn't look like its ever been split, so go figure? maybe someone was having a bad day at the factory when it was assembled? another thing is these axle bearings are different from the older Torrington B1816. they are marked J1816 and are a caged bearing. they are also $25 compared to the $8 B1816. J1816.... B1816.... heres the rest of the trans tear down.... another thing i haven't come across before with the older transmissions is two axle seals on each side..... heres the damage on the end of the bearing shell. part of the shell that holds the caged bearing split around the circumference half way and was loose. i damaged it more removing it, but i didn't think it wise to leave it in the trans as is. even though it probably spent its whole life like that. now I've got to decide whether to replace it with the $8 one or $25 one...... cases all ready to be masked up, paint removed and powder coated ih red. Edited January 26, 2014 by Martin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martin 2,132 #137 Posted January 25, 2014 once i get the transmission done the 416-8 can have 4 legs instead of 2....... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ol550 830 #138 Posted January 26, 2014 heres the damage on the end of the seal. part of the shell that holds the caged bearing split around the circumference half way and was loose. i damaged it more removing it, but i didn't think it wise to leave it in the trans as is. even though it probably spent its whole life like that. now I've got to decide whether to replace it with the $8 one or $25 one...... Just went through this on my D-200. The caged bearing is considered to be heavy duty. My axles were not perfect so I opted to go with the caged bearing with the thought the cage would keep the needles in line with the shaft. The uncaged may tend to bind if the needles don't stay inline. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sorekiwi 761 #139 Posted January 26, 2014 ol550 has a good point there, my normal line of thinking would be to go for the bearing with more rollers in it. I really dont know now. I'm not surprised that the odd bearing got damaged at the factory, have you seen the pictures of the gearbox assembly line? A big automated press installing all the bearings in one side of the case in one punch of the button! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martin 2,132 #140 Posted January 26, 2014 I'm probably going to install what was in there so it will be the high dollar one. Mike, I've been studying those power points of the 315 factory run for a while now........ wish some of the pics were clearer, but its all good info.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martin 2,132 #141 Posted January 26, 2014 another thing i noticed when comparing the caged roller to the older style was the caged bearing rollers really stay in place when you roll them in the shell, but the older style move out of perpendicular, and i guess the more they are worn the more they will angle away from where they should be.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sorekiwi 761 #142 Posted January 26, 2014 another thing i noticed when comparing the caged roller to the older style was the caged bearing rollers really stay in place when you roll them in the shell, but the older style move out of perpendicular, and i guess the more they are worn the more they will angle away from where they should be.... I think once you have a shaft in there, it will line them up again, they'll tend to line up along the circumference of the shaft. Tripod type driveshaft joints actually have a tiny bit on taper machined into their inner pin to encourage the rollers to actually roll instead of there natural tendency to stay put, aligned with the shaft through the middle. I am sure that a Wheel Horse driveshaft is not designed in the same way, but the thought is interesting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick 235 #143 Posted January 26, 2014 I like those front tires, Martin! Are they the Vredstein tire? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leeave96 487 #144 Posted January 26, 2014 I am doing some catch-up reading - with regard to the two seals on the axle, I recall that Wheelhorse started doing that at some point in later production. Don't know if it was with the late C series or beyond that, but not a bad idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martin 2,132 #145 Posted January 26, 2014 I like those front tires, Martin! Are they the Vredstein tire? yes Rick, they are Vredestein V61 16 x 6.50-8. I am doing some catch-up reading - with regard to the two seals on the axle, I recall that Wheelhorse started doing that at some point in later production. Don't know if it was with the late C series or beyond that, but not a bad idea. Bill, there has been some debate on here about running 2 seals before. one of the problems that can surface with the two seals is the outer one dries out over time because the inner limits the amount of oil that is on the inside surface of the seal. then you only have one seal doing the job anyway. might be a good idea to make sure that if running two seals that some grease or at least oil is wiped in between the two before installing the axle. undecided as yet whether one or two seals will be reinstalled..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick 235 #146 Posted January 26, 2014 Thanks for the reply on the tires, Martin. Re: the two seals- was the outer one put in backwards i.e.lip to the outside? I have noticed that the IPL for my WH 36" tiller shows two seals on each side, and I have worked on something that two seals per side. the outer seal keeps dirt from the inner seal as I understand it. I have replaced more seals in TroyBilt tillers than Wheel Horses, usually with the Troy tillers, the shaft is trashed from dirt mixing with the lube and making an abrasive compound. I kind of wish that Troy had tried two seals per side! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martin 2,132 #147 Posted January 26, 2014 both seals installed the same way. as far as the tires go, i have wanted to use them for a while now. I've heard they are a great front tire for the garden tractors. thinking of getting another set for the plow tractor as the oem dico turfs on the front don't have very much side 'slide' resistance while plowing and general turning around in the snow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishroe 261 #148 Posted January 26, 2014 A big 10-4 Rick on the troybilt seals. I have an early 70's tb horse tiller. They are probably the strongest tillers ever made that you walk behind. Mine haven't leaked yet but I know it's coming Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JERSEYHAWG / Glenn 4,497 #149 Posted January 27, 2014 Martin, good commentary with good pictures. A great way to learn. Really enjoying this project. Glenn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martin 2,132 #150 Posted January 28, 2014 got the trans castings painted today. first they were stripped chemically in a strip tank we use for removing powder coat from parts that shouldn't endure 800 deg burn oven. this trans had been painted over the oem paint in some areas, that paint came off relatively easy, but the oem paint took a few hours to loosen its grip. after removing from the tank the halves were pressure washed and dried in one of the cure ovens for an hour or so. this also helped bake out some of the oil in the casting. don't need that coming through the paint later on. all stripped ready for some red...... then the halves had to be masked off so i didn't get powder inside any of the bearings or other areas that its not needed. i thought about painting the inside, but decided against it as all the bearings really need to be removed to make it easy to mask off. any oil that is remaining, the powder will stick to it and its hard to blow off or wipe off. i tried to keep it simple and leave the bearings alone as they are all in good condition, except the one damaged axle bearing. anyway, once its all masked off i got to make it all shiny red...... while I'm waiting on some spares i will clean up the shafts and gears and get everything ready for re assembly. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
