RJ 58 trans won't shift into gear

[Patrick Reese 40]

Just had the opportunity to buy an RJ 58 I used to own. It's not that many years since I sold it and the buyer has kept it inside a pole barn out of the weather. Only had to deal with some condensation at worst. When we got it home, it starts and runs ok, all belts in place and work. But it won't shift into gear. Looks like the sliders are stuck.. took the boot off and shifter out to see if we could gently tap on the sliders to get them to move it into gear no luck.. stuck. It's dry in there but doesn't look all rusty and corroded. Sprayed about a half can of AeroKroil in there to let it soak and see if that will help.

 

Does anyone have any tips for us on what to do? without having to disassemble the tranny? Going to let it soak for a couple of days and continue to load it up with PB Blaster or similar products. What about soaking in Kerosene? Or perhaps something a little more aggressive? I've used vinegar on mildly corroded parts to free them up before. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,
Pat

[timo4352 147]

Transmission fluid and acetone did the trick for a seized outboard motor for me.

Soaking it for days and increasing the amount of acetone to tranny fluid per day. Moving things real slow 'til it freed up.

[stevasaurus 22,701]

Your problem is that the shifter forks set high in the trans body...just spraying blaster on them through the shifter hole is not going to do anything.  Short of tearing it down, the only chance you have is to fill the trans up to the top with diesel or kerosene and let it soak and gently try to move the shift forks once in a while.  The above post is recommending what is a home made penetrating oil (ATF & Acetone )...there are some posts about this mixture.  This mixture is supposed to be an excellent penetrating oil...however...I am not sure I would want to fill up my transmission with it as the acetone may attack the rubber seals on your axles, brake shaft, and input shaft. 

 

Personally, with no pictures and little information, I would pull the shifter..drain the oil in the trans...fill with diesel to the top, and let it set for a couple of days.  Once each day I would try to gently shift each of the forks (one at a time) with a large screw driver...do not force.  Any movement is a good thing...work back and forth.  once you get movement...it does not take too much to free that shift fork up after that.  Remember, there is a second fork to loosen up...same with that one.  My 2 cents.   BTW, if you end up tearing it apart to free it up...the ATF & Acetone mixture is an excellent penetrating oil applied to the right area. 

[Patrick Reese 40]

Thanks, I was kind of thinking of the diesel route. I have a jug of heating oil that was left over from a tank I pulled. Not good to burn but probably perfect for soaking the trans.. that little bit of penetrating oil that's already in there will probably be a little bit of a help.. I'm really hoping not to have to tear it down.

[Tom. 70]

Hi,

I had similar troubles with a suburban transmission with it being partially seized and not selecting a few of the gears so I drained the oil and filled to the top with diesel and it worked really well for me and freed everything up, I was amazed. I would definitely try it!

[Patrick Reese 40]

Well it looks like I'm going to have to do a tear down after all.. I pulled the shifter out a few days ago to get at the shift forks and see if I could move them. Today I filled the transmission up with Fuel Oil and it immediately started to run right back out through the seal behind the brake drum shaft. This might explain why the transmission got stuck in the first place. UGH. Didn't want to have to do this. Well this one's getting put on the back burner.

[stevasaurus 22,701]

Sorry, that is one of the liabilities of trying to fill up an older transmission that has been sitting around.  If you pull the transmission off the horse, you could stand the transmission on end and put enough diesel in to cover the shift forks.  Also, they are not hard to tear down and fix right and put back together. A couple of threads here on Red Square show how to do that.  I can help walk you through it if you like.

[Patrick Reese 40]

WE opened up the case tonight to see what is going on. It looks like the sliders up top are stuck. Gave them a good soaking with penetrating oil then heated them up with a propane torch.. hit them again with penetrating oil. Tried tapping on one of them with a punch and hammer (lightly of course) to see if there is any movement. For now they are stuck.. It looks like there is a pin that goes through the case and through both slider shafts. I assume this is what holds the shafts in place? Can anyone (steveasuarus) tell us a little more about that. It also looks like the side of the case we opened up is not the side to take the gears out from. We pulled the side with the brake drum on since that was the seal leaking. It looks pretty cruddy in there.

 

Edited October 24, 2013 by Patrick Reese

[stevasaurus 22,701]

You did open the correct side of the case.   You need to pull the bolts out of the other side and break loose that plate (but not take it off) so you can slide the casting piece a little bit.  You can then take out the reduction gear on top of the cluster gear shaft, then the pinion gear on top of the spline shaft.  Next pull out the cluster gear and shaft together.  Then pull out the spline shaft...the fork gears can stay in there for now, as you have to be able to swivel the forks to get those out and that is what is stuck.  You can then carefully work the casting up and around the differential and the mushroom shaped gear. (the little ears that the end plate bolts go into are what you are trying to work around the differential).  Once you get the casting off, the differential and mushroom gear will come out.  Now you can clean everything and start soaking the fork shafts.

 

There is no pin that goes through those shafts.  What is there is a 1/4" stainless steel ball (2), one on each side of a spring with a steel pin inside of the spring.  This assembly sits in between the two shift forks.  The balls engage notches in the fork shafts and holds the forks in position after you shift into a gear.  Do not try to twist the fork shafts while they are stuck!!!  Each fork has a small roll pin going through it and the shaft (it is fragile)...this is what keeps the shafts in place.

 

Here is a link with some videos of what you have going on....

 

Here is a thread with video of how your transmission works...

 

Here is a copy of the transmission manual...your trans is in section I...http://www.mywheelho...ns/492-4004.pdf

 

Ask any questions.

[Patrick Reese 40]

Thanks so much for the links.. Great photo's and instructional video.. Stevasaurus they are a real service to the WH community! Now we aren't as afraid to dig in..

 

Pat and Joe.

[stevasaurus 22,701]

Jake Kuhn on this site is selling the gaskets that go between the casting and the plates if you do not want to cut your own...TORO is not selling them anymore, unless they have them on the shelf.  After you get down to the casting, I would put it in a 5 gallon bucket with enough diesel fuel to cover the forks.  Let it soak for a couple of days, then start tapping the forks with a punch and hammer from each side to get some movement...once they loosen up, you are home free.  Work them until you can almost do them by hand.  There are 3 notches in each fork shaft...the center one in each shaft is neutral for those 2 gears.  ie...1st and reverse work on one of the shafts, and 2nd and 3rd work on the other one.  In your transmission, the grooves in the shafts may not go all the way around the shaft...therefore when you get to where you can move the forks from side to side to get the fork gears out...know that the forks have to be in line with where the spline shaft goes to catch the notches correctly.  Does that make any since??    You do not want to take the fork shafts out if you do not have to...you have to scribe lines and try to tap out those roll pins in the forks...not easy...unless you have 4 hands in there. and a real good set of roll pin punches.  Anyway...not necessary for what you have going. 

 

Hope I did not confuse you with this post...just a bunch of little things I have run up against in the past couple of years.

 

Take more pictures and post them if you would...it will help me see what you have there...and it will also help the next guy go through this.  BTW...from what I saw in the one picture...your gears look good.    You also have one of the early...not rare...WH #5003 transmissions.  It is a 1958 RJ. not a 1959.

Edited October 25, 2013 by stevasaurus

[victor3ranger 11]

Oh LORD!!  A big light just went off in my head after reading this thread.  My newly accuired 551 Wheel Horse has been sitting since 1989, the shifter boot is all but gone, I am sure I will be visiting this thread in the future.

[Patrick Reese 40]

Well good news, after soaking for a week or so we got the shifter forks free. They are moving up and down nicely. We now need a replacement seal and bearing for the brake drum shaft. The seal was leaking and the bearing was broken apart.. any ideas what seal and bearing to get? Thanks, Pat and Joe.

[stevasaurus 22,701]

Yep...that is great news...fantastic.   

 

I am assuming that you had a ball bearing on the brake shaft...some later trans had a needle bearing .  The ball bearing is S8K the seal is Timkin 471643...the input shaft is the same seal if you want to change that also.  Get the parts from Motion Industries if you can.

 

edited...I had 741643 for the seal #...it is 471643...yes I am dyslexic...I really try to catch that...thanks Pat

Edited November 4, 2013 by stevasaurus

[Patrick Reese 40]

Thanks Stevasaurus.. I have a Callahan Bearings near me and they have been good with bearings and seals in the past. I can drive up and walkin Monday.. if they have them we might have this little guy back on it's feet next week! Probably going to put the one side of the case back on with Black RTV.. whatdya think?

[stevasaurus 22,701]

You need the gasket in there for the clearance so you do not pinch the shafts between the plates.  I learned the hard way on that...you can cut your own. 

[Patrick Reese 40]

There is someone on here that is offering them for sale.. any ideas who it is.. not sure if we are talented enough to cut that big gasket..

[Lane Ranger 10,943]

Jake Kuhn has them for sale !

[Patrick Reese 40]

You need the gasket in there for the clearance so you do not pinch the shafts between the plates.  I learned the hard way on that...you can cut your own. 

Ordered a set from Jake Kuhn. Thanks.