A look inside a 10hp Chinese Diesel

[sorekiwi 761]

Not sure if this should be posted in this section, or in the "Other Brands" section.  Feel free to move this if need be Karl.

 

There has been quite a few people that have fitted these engines to Wheel Horses, and there is quite a bit of info on how to do the swap.  However I haven't seen too many pictures of the inner workings of one.  From the reviews I've seen, most people have no problems with them, but a few have had problems straight away.  I have read that there is more than 50 different companies in China building these engines, and some are Yanmar clones, and some are clones of Yanmar clones  . 

 

A friend of mine came across a guy who was selling some 10hp clone diesel engines cheap.  The catch was that they were generator motors with the tapered crankshaft.  You can buy a new straight (1") crankshaft for $80, so I decided to take the plunge.

 

If this motor ever runs again, it will probably be in this guise:

 

 

Got a little suspicious when I saw this sticker:

 

 

Will probably need Chucks (SOI) help to figure out the electronics on this.

 

There was carbon in the exhaust port, and traces of oil on the dipstick, so it obviously had been run at the factory.  So after dropping it on the chassis to see if it would fit I started the process of swapping the cranks.

 

Flywheel off, and cheap nasty looking stator revealed:

 

 

Other side engine cover off and the internals are revealed:

 

 

Whatever oil was in the crankcase has turned to a thick sticky treacle goop in the bottom of the crankcase.  No evidence of any metal particles either in the crankcase or on the oil filter screen.

 

A closer look at the "treacle":

 

 

However this is what the PTO side main bearing looked like:

 

 

Deep scores, obviously caused by particles of something passing through the bearing.  The big end bearings look better - that is to say not scored up, but ugly wear marks nonetheless:

 

 

The ball bearings on the other end of the crank, both ends of the balance shaft and on the cam feel awful.  I haven't washed them up yet to see if they have crap in them, or whether it is just the treacle gumming them up.

 

Severe galling on the follower that drives the fuel pump off the cam (sorry for the bad pic):

 

 

And this surprise when I lifted off the valve cover:

 

 

You can see the exhaust rocker missed its little socket completely.  Yes this pushrod is now bent.

 

That's about as far as I have gone with the teardown so far, at this stage I might as well pull the piston and reassemble the thing from scratch.  Havent looked at the oil pump yet,  I'm suspecting its not too good.

 

 

 

 

[953 nut 56,559]

Looks like this was a customer returned item. Must say I have never seen a diesel with electronic ignition.  

 

I don't know if I would sink much money into rebuilding it, but if you can get the valve train lined up and put in the new crank it may be OK.   

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

Wait... 'ang on a sec...

 

WHAT ignition?  Diesel don't even HAVE ignition!

[Martin 2,133]

mike, good luck on the progress here. sort of confirms my suspicions on a lot of these engines. im still interested in trying out one of these cheap diesels, but sorting out the good from the bad before buying is the one thing holding me up.......

if i stay with gas, i can drag a kohler from the depths and usually get it running without much work, just seems easier than dealing with the new 'cheap' stuff..........

[squonk 41,794]

I would bet all of the engines this guy was selling were returns. That's why they were cheap. Wouldn't be surprised if that motor was run without any oil except what little they used at the factory to assemble it.

Edited September 3, 2013 by squonk

[Jim_M 178]

I'm guessing they use the same recoil starter on a gas engine and put the "electronic ignition" stickers on them. It looks like there was no quality control at that factory.

[JamesBe1 82]

Wow, very informative.  Please keep us posted on the rest of your findings. 

[dyt4000 2]

Very interesting thread! I bet changing the spark plug on this electronic ignition is a *****! lol

[SALTYWRIGHT 859]

I have had my 10 h/p diesel for over 5 years and no trouble. I guess I got a good one.

[boovuc 1,090]

It looks like they used Hemlock sap as a lubricant!

That is just plain bad but I guess it comes down to how many copies of copies and stolen patents this company used to create their engine line. There are a lot of start ups in China that fail quickly with the owners running to another province to bribe another set of locals into doing another start up. Since there are no regulatory controls in place, it is very difficult to determine an engine made by a "better" Chinese firm since they can put any sticker on them they want!

[sorekiwi 761]

Just dug a little deeper into this engine. 

 

Did an initial clean of most of the bits.  The ball bearings actually feel ok once the goo was washed out and replaced with some fresh (real?) oil. 

 

The bore looks good, honing marks are still very visible and the piston and rings look fine.  The bottom of the bore was coated in the dried up treacle that took quite a lot of scrubbing to remove.  I'm thinking I'll give it a very light hone and pop that part back together.  (I haven't actually measured anything yet to see how close to spec things are).  The cylinder itself is some kind of steel or iron sleeve in the aluminum block, thick wall of at least 1/8 inch.

 

So at this point (assuming everything measures up ok) I'm thinking a new main bearing, new big end bearings, either a tickle up or a new end plate for the oil pump, polish the cam lobes that are only a little ugly, one new pushrod, possibly a couple of tappets, a tickle up or a new fuel pump cam follower, and put it back together with the new crank.  Not as bad as it could have been, but still a bit of a list for a new engine.

 

I am fairly sure this thing hasn't been run anywhere apart from the factory.  The box and packing showed no signs of ever being opened, and the amount of carbon in the top end of the engine is minimal.  The starter terminals show no signs of ever having a wire hooked up to them.  My thoughts are that it was started in the factory and sucked a little bit of swarf through the oil system damaging the main bearing.  The big end bearing shows no sign of swarf, but may have been a little dry at start up, with the same applying to the camshaft lobes.  The pushrod issue was pure negligence on the part of the assembler.

 

So I still hope this thing will run again.  I'll post some more pictures of the parts at some point, too tired and hungry to go back out to the garage right now.  The basic design of the engine is (I think) very nice, a Yanmar version would be very, very nice.

[sorekiwi 761]

Thought I'd post up some more pictures of the internals for anyone who is interested.

 

Despite the crankcase being aluminum, it is a pretty stout piece with lots of stiffening ribs:

 

 

 

The underneath of the engine has two little "windows" to allow forced air from the blower housing to coll the underneath of the engine.  For this reason it would be a good idea to mount the engine on the chassis with the centre section of the crankcase clear to allow the air to flow:

 

 

The tapered and the straight cranks.  Note that my new straight crank doesn't have a plug in the end of the oil gallery drilling.  The tapered crank has an aluminum plug hammered into it.  I tapped the hole to accept a short 5/16 setscrew.

 

 

The balance shaft:

 

 

And the cylinder head:

 

 

 

And the piston:

 

 

Wont have parts till Monday, I hope to have this thing back together next week.

[boovuc 1,090]

You do know that you just tore down a secret Chinese engine and then shared it with millions, (OK.....hundreds), of other people.

The Peoples Republic of China would never reverse engineer anything proprietary from another country!

Shame on you but thanks for sharing! I always wanted to look at one of those Chinese diesels. very good post and a great idea for a post!

[Save Old Iron 1,568]

Mike, if and when you need help with the charge system, you know where to reach me.

 

I just need to know what the expected max output from the stator might be. Looking at the wiring of the stator, the gauge of the wiring might suggest it is somewhat less than the 15 amps.

 

great post

[sorekiwi 761]

Well, this thing does run.

 

 

 

A bit louder than I would have liked.  Most of the noise is from the air intake.  I first started the engine without an aircleaner, fitting the factory aircleaner did quieten it down a little, but its still noisy.  I'm thinking of doing something similar to what Kelly is doing on his diesel V twin project - a remote air filter assembly in the nose of the tractor.

 

The exhaust right now is a quicky to try a couple of different mufflers.  So far I've only tried a little Gravely muffler and its bigger cousin, the cub cadet/JD muffler.  Exhaust note is probably a little louder than a big block Kohler.  I hope to try a 300 series horizontal muffler on it in the next day or so.  Once the muffler is decided on, I'll build something nicer.

 

Mechanically the engine is relatively quiet - you'll get a little diesel rattle as you throttle up from low speed, but its not as obnoxious as I had feared.

 

I started the engine using the recoil.  As others have noted, it does take a good pull, but the compression release does make it possible.

 

I did forget to mention above that the engine does not have a pressure relief valve for the oil pump which I thought was a little odd.  Searching online for a spec on acceptable oil pressure I came across a couple of reports of over 200 psi when the engine was cold.  I had a cheapy oil pressure gauge handy so hooked that up and pegged it straight away.  So I think those reports are somewhat accurate. 

 

 

I still need to invent some sort of throttle linkage and idle stop screw, being a generator version my engine came with the fixed speed throttle control.  The Carrol Strem engines come with a different arrangement that is set up for variable speed with a cable control.

 

The on/off valve on the gas tank drips a steady supply of diesel all over the front of the tractor.  There is a fancy little rubber doohickey in there that might be just dry from sitting the last 7 years, hopefully it will fix itself.

Edited September 18, 2013 by sorekiwi

[boovuc 1,090]

Glad its running and a great save of the engine. Great post!

[dclarke 4,051]

What are you putting this in, Mike?  Glad to see you got it running.

[sorekiwi 761]

What are you putting this in, Mike? 

 

Right now its in a 516, but I'm not sure if that's where it will stay.  The motor seems to be a good fit for the 3-500 series tractors.

 

This 516 I bought locally a few years ago with all the tins off the Onan engine.  The guy had gone nuts looking to replace the points, pulled the engine half apart, gave up and sold it.  I got it running again with the Onan, but it was a real smoker and has sat for a couple of years.  I've tried to sell it as a roller a couple of times but no-one seems interested.

 

The trans is really good, but its the little 700 Eaton.  It has an electric lift on it.  A straight tractor but it has the typical 80's "paint peeling off in sheets" issue.  I may put an 8 speed in it yet, but I hate to scrap a good trans, even if it is a 700.

 

My general feeling right now is to finish up the diesel installation, leave the tractor as is and try it out as a mower with a 48" deck.  I mow 2 1/2 acres and my 520 uses probably $20 of gas to do this.  The diesel doesn't have too much aesthetic appeal to me, but if it turns out to be a reliable, economic engine that would be perfect.  I'd have the 520 as a back up (which really doesn't have too much aesthetic appeal either!!) and I can go back to playing with my '60's tractors for pleasure!

 

As always these plans are subject to change in the blink of an eye.

 

Wish I could find the time to get my 1054 running, finish the 500 Special, and rebuild the engine in the 14 Auto.

[sorekiwi 761]

Tried a very quick experiment yesterday, removed my exhaust setup and tried the box muffler that came with the engine.  Definitely much louder with the factory exhaust.

 

I've ordered another cub type exhaust and some U-bends and will build something with that.

[scWHhauler 96]

Maybe Just maby the tractor is trying to tell you somthing where is my Kohler,Briggs. Made in the USA.

[sorekiwi 761]

Maybe Just maby the tractor is trying to tell you somthing where is my Kohler,Briggs. Made in the USA.

 

You could just be right.  I have a 16 hp Kohler here would have been a good engine for this tractor.  But it needs a rebuild and I haven't found the $4-500 to buy genuine Kohler bits to put in it.

 

I could buy a whole lot of Chinese bits to put inside it, but then how American would it be??

[DoctorHfuhruhurr 137]

The diesel will save you a ton on fuel costs.  

[Jim_M 178]

Maybe Just maby the tractor is trying to tell you somthing where is my Kohler,Briggs. Made in the USA.

 

Kohler and Briggs both build engines in China now. They're still American owned companies but there's no guarantee that you"ll get an American made engine from them.

[bartl 0]

I'm curious since this swap looks interesting..... most gasoline engines are designed to run at around 3,600 rpm to drive the tractor and accessories.  What is the rpm range of the diesel and do you have to change the PTO sheave diameter to accommodate this?

[Jim_M 178]

These diesels also run at 3600.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Jim_M