1976 c-160 auto - making it go back to work.

[SteveD 1]

I am a new member, 6 month owner. This thread is intended to show, and get help with bringing my c-160 back to working condition.

I've gone through the k341 motor, new fuel, lines, filter, and fuel pump. The carb ran fine, but I pulled it off and cleaned it with an ultrasonic machine. Runs like new.

When I bought it, it pushed freely, so I assumed tow valve was open, or hydro motor was shot. It was the later for me. I had drained and filled with new 10w30 and a toro filter. Pushed freely, and made an attempt at moving forward, but would stop on an ant hill. Hydro lift did nothing.

I checked the hoses to see if they had filled with oil, which they did, so I was pretty sure the pump was working, but the motor was bad. Following the sundstrand manual, I trouble shot it to a worn thrust plate.

I priced it at 180 on ebay, or 259 at dealer after finding that it was the case.

So today I picked up a c-141. And I'm wondering what I should do.

C-160 came with 90-1140

C-141 came with 90-1173

The differences seem to be

-the 141 has a brake band and the 160 doesn't.

-the pulleys appear to be different.

Should I swap the whole rear end as a whole, or just the pump/motor to the old differential?

Can I just remove the brake assembly and be good?

Thanks Steve.

[SteveD 1]

Pic 1 brake on 141

Pic 2 fan pulley 141

Pic 3 fan pulley 160

Pic 4 cover plate where shaft doesn't exist on 160

[squonk 41,375]

I picked up a non running  74 C160  That had the same tranny swap done to it a couple of years ago. If you don't need a parking brake just bolt on that 141 trans and try it out and worry about the brake later

[SteveD 1]

I realized I was only the parking brake after I posted.

Thanks, I'm going to swap the whole thing as a unit.

[Wheelhorse84 87]

Gotta love those 160's.

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

 

Hydro lift did nothing.

I checked the hoses to see if they had filled with oil, which they did, so I was pretty sure the pump was working, but the motor was bad.

 

I thought if the pump worked the lift would still lift?

 

No?

 

If your thrust plate was worn, likely other parts too...

 

Hope that new tranny is a goodun!

[daveoman1966 3,762]

The Piston-to-Piston Sundstrand units in these tractors (90-1136, 90-1137, 90-1140, etc) are of near identical construction, and identical causes of failure...worn thrust plates and piston faces.  The Hyd pump and Hyd motor of each contain nearly duplicate brass components and when these brass parts become worn or scarred by micro-debris, pressure integrity is lost thru scratched / scarred mating surfaces, especially when at operating temperature.  Debris in system can come from careless refill of fluid, or from pulling up the engagement lever (parking brake) while still moving during a 'panic stop'.  The parking brake on these works via a parking pawl inside the gearbox.  If the parking pawl is engaged while moving, micro bits of it or the gear get chipped off, entering the fluid and eventually working its way to scarring the brass surfaces.  For this reason there is a decal 'DO NOT ENGAGE WHILE MOVING' on the side panel. Of course, failure to change filter periodically or deliverate abuse can also be a source of failure.   End of lecture.   In any case......

 

If one is to rebuild the hyd pump and the 9 piston surfaces or thrust plate are scarred or scratched at all, you can bet that the hyd motor has suffered the same damage and must also be rebuilt.  To rebuild one and not the other is a futile endeavor.   I only know this from performing the service on at least a dozen units over the years.

[SteveD 1]

Great lecture! I can't agree more with both of you. In my case, the retaining ring had two teeth fail. I'm sure they ended up becoming fine dust an ruining both. I haven't gotten that far yet.

Please don't think that I am naive enough to try filling it up with gear oil and expect it to fix itself.

I would have replied sooner, but I was busy swapping rear ends. I have the donor mounted, but no belt or tins.

I did jack up the back end of the donor machine before I pulled it. Spun the pump with my cordless drill. It spun the tires and operated the lift. Fingers crossed still. I didn't even bother trying to get the donor's motor running. Hoping for karma.

[SteveD 1]

I wonder what the clearances are for the plates? Could I get a shop to resurface them?

[SteveD 1]

Pistons and plate.

[pfrederi 17,887]

Manual says to remove no more than .005 from a slipper (piston) and all should be within .002 of each other.  For the valve plate I have taken off some pretty deep scratches and the pump and motor work fine. 

[SteveD 1]

That's some good information about the tolerances. Ill see if a buddy of mine who works at a metal fabrication place can get them done, but not till after I get the pump apart.

Good news, the donor tranny works flawlessly. Chocked the front tires, and if spun the back in dirt with me on it!!

If a moderator could move this out of transmissions and into tractors, that would be cool.

[SteveD 1]

Today, I swapped out the drive belt, and put the covers and tins on. Mounted a seat and attempted a spin around the yard. Made it about 75 feet, and the kohler krapped out. Wouldn't restart. Ill look into that later. Worse case, I have plenty of spare parts.

I was shocked how fast it goes top end. :-)

[SteveD 1]

Here she is.

[SteveD 1]

I mounted the plow yesterday, and unfroze the left to right action on it. Pushed some dirt around with it. Not that I'm looking forward to it, but I can't wait to plow some snow! Going to try the impossible steering wheel swap. Get the rototiller mounted and tested, and the hood back on.

I rebuilt the carb, and found a little goo in the main needle. I am very lucky to live in a town that has had a toro/wheelhorse dealer since 1956!

As a side note, I have a c-141 without a butt on it if someone is in need of some parts at very reasonable prices!

[Martin 2,133]

steve, enjoying reading your thread on getting the c 160 going.......

good luck on the steering wheel....

[SteveD 1]

Thanks Martin! I have seen beautiful restorations here, and am quite jealous of some of the pretty machines. With that said, I know that I'll never be able to completely restore this c160 and not use it! With that reasoning, I just want to get it back to a reliable machine that does the tasks it was meant to.

When replacing the transaxle, I did sand and prime the areas that touched each other, knowing that ill never be there again. I did sand, fill and paint the hood, but just the top. A worker machine doesn't need new emblems!

I've decided to replace the whole upper steering shaft with the "tower" and the steering wheel. The old pin doesn't want to give, and the donor machine is in better shape.

Going to mow one last time with the b115 and get the blower on that, ready for New England weather about 1-2 months from now. The c-160 can finish the season mowing if it even needs it.

[SteveD 1]

I have been busy rebuilding the carb and repainting the plow.

Today's question, is "where is the spring that pulls the brake pedal up?"

My pedal lays in the engaged position until I move the drive stick. This works, but doesn't allow for smoothness. Where should I be looking.

Thanks!