Question(s) for all you D owners

[brandonozz 168]

Finally got my D200 running and the FEL working.  This being my first Hydro and first D could you guys with experience please let me know what is normal.  Bought the tractor with a busted trans case due to a broken bolt in the diff and swapped in  a donor rear end.  After getting it back together I started using it to see how the hydro performed.  I figured I would tell you about its performance and you can tell me your thoughts,

 

Tractor seems to run with little hydro noise when minimal weight is on the tractor.  Climbs hills and decends hills with little speed change.  Dig in too much with a box blade and it will spin the tires easily.  Turf tires at the time.

 

Picked up 350#'s of counter weight using the 3 point with ease.  The tractor seems to make a bit more hydro noise driving around with the extra weight.

 

Mounted the Ark 550 and played with it a bit and this made the hydro strain a bit more lugging around all the extra weight.  Today I was trying to "scalp" a bit of dirt to fill some holes and when the loader would bite in a bit too much the hydro would squeal and the tires would get stopped in their tracks.  Would not spin the tires.

 

So... my questions are ..... is this what you would expect with a good hydro?  Is the squealing normal under heavy loads?  Would you expect a hydro in perfect working condition to be stalled out like mine or would you expect to be able to spin the tires even with 350 pounds hanging on the 3 pt and agressive tires?

Please share your experience with these D's.  I guess I'm looking at trying to gauge the condition of my hydro system and if I should consider going into it for a refurb in the near future.  Would you if these were your symptoms?

 

Thanks for all the replies.

 

 

 

[Trouty56 565]

350 is way more counterweight than I use.....I use 200 lbs...I don't have a FEL either....but I have never had the tires stop digging in.....even with chains....  I would say in "perfect" working condition the pump and motor should be the last thing to fail......  IMHO

[pacer 3,168]

My 180 has a quite different work load than yours - no FEL nor wheel weights or snow removal - but I DO sometimes treat it worse than a Dickens character! One of those ways is removing the MANY pine beetle dead pines on my property. I cut the trunks into chunks that the 180 can pick up with the 3 pt and often they are heavy enough the steering is a bit light - that can be interesting! I also use my Brinley 4' rear blade to butt/bump the log chunks around. I often cringe at what I expect of, and then it do, out of this amazing piece of equipment. Love my D-180!! Anyway if it gets more than it wants, it'll just start throwing up big chunks of dirt and dig a hole til I reposition things. My tranny whines a bit, but from my experience with hydraulics, its normal.

 

By the way - after I had my D about couple years I had the dreaded bolt break in the differential and it crack out the case pretty badly. This was many years ago (before the web!) and info/parts in this area were not much. I bought a Yard Man tractor to mow with and the D sat for a couple years. Finally decided to either try to repair it or scrap it - took it apart and using about a hundred brazing rods I welded all the spider wed of cracks up, having to weld up the original drain plug and make another away from the damage. Had som seepage for a while, but even that has stopped and the tractor, like a Timex, takes a lickin n keeps on tickin! As I said  ----  "I LOVE MY D"

Edited August 18, 2013 by pacer

[coldone 35]

Let me start by saying that I have never put my Ds under a heavy load, yet. D160 doesnt have a 3PTH, and the 200 hasnt been in good enough shape yet.

 

The fact that your speed doesnt change going up or down hill shows that the hydro is in decent shape. The squeal could be 2 things. You could be popping the relief valve that is built in to the hydro pump. The second thing could be hydro wear. Since you had a busted transaxle originally, then you could have a damaged pump and motor. The damage usually is in the valve plate and rotating group assembly. The metal particulates from the transaxle gets picked up in the oil and is sent to the pump and motor. There the metal scores the valve plate. The fit between the valve plate and rotating group must be perfect, the scoring allows too much oil to flow out and not be put use by the system.

 

Did the motor bogg down before the squealing started? If it did, I would think that you just popped the relief valve.

[JamesBe1 82]

Hmmmm.  I am no stranger to hearing a squealing hydro.  I had to replace my pump a couple of years ago, and got lucky with the used one that I installed.  I have a D-180 with an FEL and liquid filled ag tires.  At the moment, it is sitting waiting for a motor rebuild, but I recall that even though there would be some squeal, the tires would not stop turning.  The ag's would dig-in and one or the other would loose traction and turn while the other would stay (I hate limited slip differential).

 

I don't think the tires stopping in their tracks is normal.  It probably indicates a weakening hydro system.  That's not to say that the tractor should be put out of its misery.  You just need to be mindful of its limits.  The point at which you deem it ready for repair is kinda tough.  Depending on how hard you use it, it may be many years down the road or right around the corner.

Just my 3c worth.

james

[coldone 35]

Thought of something else, the sound would be more metalic, like gears grinding or slipping. You could feel it also. That would be the coupling slipping on the input shaft of the pump. My D200 will do this and the wheels stop spinning. Only did it twice before I figured out what it was. Dont want  to strip the splines on the shaft.

[brandonozz 168]

When the tractor is stripped of weight the DCL requires no adjustment when climbing small hills and really doesn't make much noise when starting the incline.  When the loader and counter balance is mounted and traveling towards the incline there is a bit of whine.  When starting the incline the tractor will slow and more forward motion is needed with the DCL, not much but more is needed or it will slow down.  It will then go on up the hill with the the whine a bit louder. 

The largest whine seems to be while the DCL is being adjusted and the ground speed hasn't caught up to the flow of fluid.  Once the tractor picks up speed the whine seems to lessen.

I really haven't noticed the engine lug down at all while moving but it may have just before stalling the wheels from turning as the FEL bit in to the ground too much.

I moved a woden porch (by pushing not lifting) today.  My guess is it weighs about 500 pounds.  Pushed it uphill and the trans did squeal but it ot the job done and there was motion control left if needed.

Im sure the hydro isn't 100% as it has been worked hard by the PO but it seems to be usable for now.  I haven't seen another D working hard so I dont really know what sounds are normal and what the limits of their capabilities are.  I've heard how some guys say theirs can move a house but this one doesn't seem to be that strong.  I've always heard that the limit to what you can push with a garden tractor was traction but with mine I found that with weight on the back I can reach the limit of the hydro.  By the way, the sound I was hearing was the same as when moving  (just louder when the weels stopped turning) so I don't believe it was the hydto coupler to the engine. 

Until I get out and work it in several different situations I'm really  not sure what it can do.

[brandonozz 168]

Hmmmm.  I am no stranger to hearing a squealing hydro.  I had to replace my pump a couple of years ago, and got lucky with the used one that I installed.  I have a D-180 with an FEL and liquid filled ag tires.  At the moment, it is sitting waiting for a motor rebuild, but I recall that even though there would be some squeal, the tires would not stop turning.  The ag's would dig-in and one or the other would loose traction and turn while the other would stay (I hate limited slip differential).

 

I don't think the tires stopping in their tracks is normal.  It probably indicates a weakening hydro system.  That's not to say that the tractor should be put out of its misery.  You just need to be mindful of its limits.  The point at which you deem it ready for repair is kinda tough.  Depending on how hard you use it, it may be many years down the road or right around the corner.

Just my 3c worth.

james

James, 

I did break traction this morning while lifting with the FEL and pulling at the same time.  When scalping the ground the FEL was actually taking a little weight off the front of the tractor adding more traction to the rear wheels and this is when the wheels stopped turning and the hydro reached it's limit.

[Wmanning416 9]

I have a d160 with a loader, liquid filled tires, 55 pound wheel weights on each side and 250 pounds in the ballast box . Hydro wines some but I can dig holes all day with the rear ag tires. Never had them stop on their own. Hope this helps.

[brandonozz 168]

I have a d160 with a loader, liquid filled tires, 55 pound wheel weights on each side and 250 pounds in the ballast box . Hydro wines some but I can dig holes all day with the rear ag tires. Never had them stop on their own. Hope this helps.

That is exactly what I wanted to know.  Sounds like I need referb the hydro and/or motor.  Tell me, when driving on level ground and you come to an incline, do you need to give it more DCL to maintain your speed?  I figured with that much weight a little extra on inclines may be normal.

Looks like it's time to re-read all the awsome tutorials/videos you guys have been nice enough to share with us.

Maybe you guys can compile your knowledge into a paperback ...................... "sundstrands for dummies"!

[JamesBe1 82]

 

I have a d160 with a loader, liquid filled tires, 55 pound wheel weights on each side and 250 pounds in the ballast box . Hydro wines some but I can dig holes all day with the rear ag tires. Never had them stop on their own. Hope this helps.

That is exactly what I wanted to know.  Sounds like I need referb the hydro and/or motor.  Tell me, when driving on level ground and you come to an incline, do you need to give it more DCL to maintain your speed?  I figured with that much weight a little extra on inclines may be normal.

Looks like it's time to re-read all the awsome tutorials/videos you guys have been nice enough to share with us.

Maybe you guys can compile your knowledge into a paperback ...................... "sundstrands for dummies"!

 

I have never had a hydro that didn't need adjustment to the dcl when traversing a slope.  My D did it, and my C-145 does is.  I kinda figure that's normal for a 30 year old tractor.  They probably maintained their speed nicely for the first several years, but diminished in capacity over time (sorta like my getting old, I don't go up hills as fast as I used to either!).

[Wmanning416 9]

Yes I have to give it more DCL on incline and I get a little more whine out of the pump but I think that's normal. I know I'm comparing apples to oranges here but I have to give my truck more throttle to go up a hill. Same goes for more DCL on a tractor. Takes more energy to climb a hill than driving on flat ground.