Suburban transmisson

[Tom. 70]

Hi all,

I have got a little 1960 suburban 400 and I'm having problems with the transmisson. At first it was all very seized and stiff obviously due to the previous owner letting it sit outside. However it now selects all gears and works well except the right hand side hub(as you look from the back) is very stiff. When in neutral the left hand side one spins fine as it should however the right hand one is very stiff and I can only just turn it by hand but it takes a lot of effort then when in gear the left hand one spins fine again and obviously then spins the drive pulley however the right hand one you still can't spin very well. I have filled it with diesel numerous times to try and help however it's still very stiff. I have tried removing the hub however it is very tight on there and I can't remove it.

What could this be? I'm not too great with transmissons so any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Tom

[VinsRJ 723]

Let me first say there is nothing to be nervous about when it comes to these tranny's... they come part and go back together very easily.

 

Now on to the issue described, IMO you have buildup of poo in the tranny. It could be located in the axel bushing and or the diff/carrier. With the way you have described the initial stiffness (and you plan on keeping the tractor) I would give it a complete field strip, cleaning and replacement of bearing/bushings and seals. Even if you get the axel to loosen up with diesel the seals will weep/leak fairly soon.

 

In order to get the hub off the axel you will need a torched and a medium size gear puller

[stevasaurus 22,872]

Tom, Vin is correct, and you are going to have to take it apart to fix it right.  You can still get all the parts (used), new seals and new bearings if needed.  I have a couple of threads on Red Square with pictures and videos of taking apart and fixing the same trans you have.  Vin is half right about it being easy to do.  Taking it apart, when pieces are rusted, can be a bear and takes some time.  Putting it back together is the easy part.

 

Here is what I would do to make things easier.  Put in enough oil in the trans to get up to the axles...use 10wt...about 3 to 4 qts.  Drive it around in 1st gear only and once in a while reverse.  You have to drive it to turn the sticky axle...it will not turn on blocks unless you can chock the left side.  Go slow, you do not want to hurt or really force anything.  Jack it up once in a while, like after 1/2 hour of running, and see if it is loosening up.  You are just trying to work some oil into those bronze axle bearings and into the gears of the differential.  You will know after an hour or so if things are getting better. The longer you do this, the easier things will come apart.

 

Now for the pay off.  Don't mess with that stuck hub if it is really stuck hard.  Luckily, it is on the same side as the input shaft.  Drain the trans, take off all linkage, pulleys, left hub and take trans off of frame.  Put the input side axle housing in a vise...so the trans is on it side.  You can take the whole trans apart with the stuck hub on the axle, and in the end, pull the axle out of the right side plate.  Now you can press off the hub a lot easier with out beating up other parts of the transmission.  See what you think and let us know...take pictures.  Figure around $100 for the seals and bad bearing replacement and gaskets.  Most of that is the 2 axle cap seals that you can only get from Toro...about $18 apiece.   You will have a transmission that will last another 60 years if taken care of...when done.

[Tom. 70]

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks for the replies and the reassurance on splitting the transmission!

 

As you said Vin there is probably some crud in there as the diesel when emptied was very dirty it is however it is slowly getting cleaner as it is drained after being in the transmission.

 

At the moment I have attatched a bar so I can easily try and free up the axle like I mentioned however I have noticed once I have turned the hub around five times the axle casing near the hub becomes incredibly hot, I mean if I went for five minutes spinning the hub the axle would be se hot I wouldn't be able to touch it. Is this because it's so stiff it just builds up friction and therefore heat? As you guys said it's probably best to split it and clean it, to be honest I think I will have to do this now. I did plan on just getting it running and using it for a bit while I get one of the other horses running but I think I may be forced to split it.

 

If I did split it - which I most likely will - removing the hub on the left hand side is the next problem!! I am going to order a good puller but I was wondering whether I could "pull" on the three holes for where the wheel nuts go, such as putting a bolt through there and through the puller and pulling on all three of them, would this be suitable? I didn't know if there was a big risk of breaking the hubs?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks guys for your help so far it's been invaluable!!

 

Tom

[stevasaurus 22,872]

If it is that tight, do not run it.  You can make a hub puller out of another hub...do a search on this site.  If you can't find it, I will find you the link.  You have rust by the sound of it...no big deal...if the gears are not missing teeth, you can do electrolysis on the gears and whatever else is full of rust.  I did one for Jake that was rusted solid...started out being junk...went to being a parts trans...ended up rebuilding it and making a good trans out of it.  Takes some time soaking the parts and gears to get them apart...I think I spent over a month on Jake's.  Once you get the left side off, start soaking everything with penetrating oil.,  I would like to see some pictures at this point so I know a little better what we are talking about.  Do not be afraid...I and the others will be here to walk you though it...not the first time...you will be surprised how satisfying this is to do...

 

No doubt about it...you need to get one of the hubs off to open the transmission...preferably the left side.  I ended up cutting off one hub with a Sawsall to get where I wanted to get.  Hopefully, it will not come to that, but know we have parts to replace. Check out this thread...just to give you an idea what you have...same trans inside...you have a #5007.

 

Edited July 19, 2013 by stevasaurus

[Tom. 70]

Hi all!

 

Thanks again for your help, I'm not sure I'd do without it!

 

After reading through various threads and after some encouragement by you guys I went out today and bought a puller and oh my it did wonders!! I put tension on it and got an air chisel on a piece of metal slowly hitting the hub and at first it was very slow however I got half way and the puller just slid it off, I was very pleased as I had great doubts in getting the left hand side hub off.

 

After removing the hub I opened it up and after a quick sand on the brake shaft the left side slid off revealing all the gears, which in my opinion weren't too bad however I am no expert! I got some pictures for you experts too see what you thought:

 

Is the next step clearing the old workbench and laying out the parts inside and getting to the other axle? Or should I attempt to get the other hub off first?

 

Thanks again, you guys have been a great help!!

 

Tom

[953 nut 55,854]

   Great news, now that you have it opened up I would use some PB BLASTER from the inside and let it work for a day or two before doing anything. That stuff is wonderful.

 

 

[VinsRJ 723]

Initial look inside, it does look good. The gears which are criticle when it comes to wear are the bull/breashaft gears (the bull gear looks good in your pics) and the third gear (which is on the other side of the tranny and cannot be seen in your pics).

 

Once you pop it apart soak everything, including the side covers and case in some sort of degreaser for a few days, scotch brite the gears off and you will be ready to order some bearings, bushings and seals!

[stevasaurus 22,872]

Transmission looks real good inside...I see no reason why that trans is stuck.  Maybe one of the axle gears is messed up (inside the differential)...the third weak spot. I think I would give that other hub a shot with that lucky puller you have first.   When you start taking it apart...when you have the big mushroom shaped gear and the differential left...you have to kind of work the casting up and around those gears...don't force it, you can break off the bolt holes on the back side of the casting.

 

Just so you know...you have one of the earlier 1960 transmissions. You can tell by the number of teeth on the bull gear, plus the ball bearing (not needle bearing) that is still on the top of the brake shaft.  That bearing is your # S8K bearing...4 of those in your trans.

Edited July 21, 2013 by stevasaurus