Are horses gold?...A rant or a comedy depending on perspective

[Hodge71 664]

Didn't know where to put this so its here, I'm sure a mod will move it if need be. I finally got the time to run and check out a Scranton PA Craigslist posting. I had been speaking with this guy from since the listing showed up 2 weeks ago. The only thing he had sold so far was a sickle bar mower. He told me that he still had a running C101, C-81, 800, 656, a GT 14, plus an RJ each for $250. He also had implements which were a deck for each machine plus a tiller, a chipper, dump cart,  and a deck and blade for the RJ. Well I got there and let me tell you.....I see why its all still there.  First, none of the electric start tractors will start. Granted one is a Briggs, the other a Tecky so its no that strange, but don't advertise "running" tractors that you can't start. So I stopped looking at the 800 and 656. I never got to see the 101 or the 81 as I wasn't really interested in them and he told me they were buried in a corner. This brings me to the GT 14....it was really a 14 auto. Very rough shape, brand new 2 day old motorcycle battery instead of the proper battery, paint very rough, finally jumps it to start it and it runs but wont idle very well. It has no muffler, he said it blew off yesterday. Had a HUGE boat seat instead of the proper seat, finally he fiddled with the with the seat pan for 20 minutes and got it up. I pulled the tranny dipstick and its dry. The tranny filter is a OEM Wheel Horse one.....but its RED so it might be original 1973. I open the hood and see a cluster of a wiring harness with 3 ballast resistors wired in randomly. I say wired, but thats being generous, more like wires wrapped around terminals with electrical tape...Ugh... I pull the engine dipstick and it shoots 2 feet in the air because of the blowby. The head gasket is seeping oil as the engine is covered in wet dust and dirt in one corner. Plus the exhaust has the whole under hood and air cleaner black with soot so I'd bet t hasn't had a muffler for some time. Poor things breathing its own exhaust...no wonder it wont idle..... But all in all I figure its a $250 machine and its my favorite year being a '73 so I can see potential. I hate when emotions play into  a purchase.....We start talking and the price jumps to $900 without the 48" deck but he would take $800 because I'm there. I say whoa you told me $250. Well he did some checkin on the internets and this tractor was only made 1 year. Plus he has a Wheel Horse guy that told him he can sell the weights for $500 easy at the "Smacktown"? show... wherever that is. So now the price is $800 with the weights or $400 without. I explain to him the original tranny filter with no oil on the dipstick, clapped out engine, bad head gasket, botched wiring and flying engine dipstick but he wont budge. Change tactics....Distraction and then go back to the 14... (Mike from American Pickers taught me that)...lets look at Implements. Tiller....tines shot, seals leaking like sieves, all kinds of twine wrapped around shaft b the seals. rusty, random blue paint and not worth $200. Chipper was nice but I have no use for it really. Cart was decent but he wanted $200 for that too....not worth it. So I move back to the 14 Auto....I offer $300 and I feel thats $150 too much without the deck...lol..... Hes firm at $400 without the weights. I try to distract him again by asking about the RJ...He tells me its sweet takes me over to his tarp to show me it.....I'm thinking..."here we go again"...Lifts up the tarp and there is a pristine RJ 59 absoolutely perfect paint..I mean stupendous as ggod of a rest as I have seen on here by our best guys....I'm like Wow!!!! I'll Take it for $250!!! I start counting and he's like nope sorry I cant take less than 3. I say ok I'll give you $300...His answer....not 300....3000.......I'm flabbergasted at this point and a bit miffed to say the least. I ask him what makes you think that tractor is worth 3 grand? I mean seriously its a restored RJ with a plow and mower deck. I tell him WAYYYYYYY too high and he will never sell it at that price. At this point I left....The RJ distraction worked though because I forgot about the 14 Auto entirely...Oh wait he was supposed to forget about the price on the 14...Oh well....someday I will get my 16 auto/C-160/161 that I want so bad......

 

 

I'm done and I feel much better..... Thanks for listening to my comical story on how not to sell any tractors.... or buy them for that matter....lol....      

Edited July 9, 2013 by hodge71

[CasualObserver 3,408]

   Best thing you could do... walk away.  You're not going to reason with someone like that.  Besides... sounds like he's getting some excellent advice from "his Wheel Horse guy."   $500 for weights... yeah, on what planet?

 

Anytime anyone brings up "well I was told they only made that for one year...."  You have to remember.... with exception of the Ponds & RJs, THEY WERE ALL ONLY MADE FOR ONE YEAR until 1969, and then after that they were still only a few years on each model run.  Don't see many 1962 854's do you?  or 1961 1277's?  You have to shoot that one year crap down in a heartbeat.  That really doesn't mean squat for a Wheel Horse in my opinion.

[546cowboy 301]

Those people are all over Ebay and CL and that's one more reason I have just about quit buying, When I go to sell one they won't pay anything for them even though my prices are lower than others on there. It's becoming not worth the time and effort to try and save them anymore. That's why I am considering get out of the GT business.

[Wheel Horse Kid 105]

WOW! What a story. Sorry you had that trouble, but I have to admit, it was a pretty funny story. Had something like that happen to me not too long ago, although his prices were not that crazy. Just because it says Wheel Horse on it does not mean it is automatically worth millions. That guy that you dealt with is beyond crazy! Since there are so many nuts on Craigslist now that ask such blown up prices, I check it alot less than I used too. Got to wonder what is going to happen to prices once our hobby gets even bigger someday. Kinda wondering if it will become like muscle cars where the prices just shot up like crazy!!!

Edited July 9, 2013 by Wheel Horse Kid

[SousaKerry 501]

Hopefully someone like Jay Leno never gets into this hobby to drive prices sky high with unlimited funds.

[fourwheels0 191]

Hopefully someone like Jay Leno never gets into this hobby to drive prices sky high with unlimited funds.

it's already happening to a point.

people thinking a newer vertical wheel horse is the same as a older horizontal and asking crazy money.

then there's the hoarder's that buy everything they can and NEVER sell any of it.

prices have changed a lot in just the last 3-4yrs.

[VinsRJ 721]

Just keep the hunt on... you will come across a number of idiots before you fine one thats reasonable...

 

Only took about 6 or 7 years to put together my collection.

[posifour11 723]

I'm seeing the same thing here. A c-121 in average condition and they want almost a grand. Hopefully winter slows things down.

[Hodge71 664]

Another thing that I was thinking after this whole escapade was, if you truly are interested in selling a machine no matter what it would be, car, truck, bus, boat or tractor, why would you not change the oil, and filters, pressure wash the engine make sure there is a functioning  muffler...etc? I mean I do that when I sell anything to be sure its in top condition to get top dollar. This guy had scrapiron and wanted  top dollar for it.  Granted I will day that the 800 and 656 did start with the pull string but the electric start and wiring were non existent really. All I heard was these things a lll ran strong last week or last month or yesterday or today depending on which tractor. He said the 14 auto was running all morning helping pull stuff around because he was going to the big John Deere show in New York. Yet it wouldn't even turn over with a 2 day old battery. Then you get offended when I pick out that the ranny fluid doesnt show on the dipstick, the entire inside of the hood is black so clearly the muffler didnt blow off yesterday and assorted other things. Such is life....Someday my 16 Auto is gonna show up. I hope it'll be tomorrow

[SousaKerry 501]

He said the 14 auto was running all morning helping pull stuff around because he was going to the big John Deere show in New York.

Well there is the problem he is a JD guy ya gotta be half off to like that ugly green and yellow

[bean 85]

I actually gave up on cl, after dealing with a person who wanted to up the price, when I was  going to pick up the tractor.

so,  I decided to find a chipper shredder to refine some free mulch I have been getting.  the first post I see is for a 1976 mighty mac- $150.  I go and look at it and it is in real nice shape.  it has a 5hp briggs that looks new.  it couldn't have been used much.  the only thing wrong with it was the chipper blade was slightly dull.,  the guy tells me $130.  we shake hands and are both happy . it restored my faith in cl.

for about 6 months,  wheel horse prices in my area have been beyond insane. I have seen 211-4s listed for $700-800,  A series for $1000,  "rattlecan restorations" for $2500.

then there are some good deals, but they are getting rare.

Edited July 9, 2013 by bean

[littleredrider 409]

Being that Scranton is barely an hour from me, thought bout going to see what he had. Not that I need anything, but yah never know. It irritates me, I tried selling my stuff and got I think two people to come take a look....

 

C/L can be awesome and a major PITA!!! I've found some good deals lately. Today I got a brandy new set of 23x10.5x12 Ags never mounted for $100.

[SPINJIM 1,981]

Thanks for saving me a frustrating trip.   I saw the CL ad, and was considering a three hour trip to see what he had.  Sounded good on CL.  

If I had driven 3 hours each way to get the response you got, I think I would have had some choice words for him.    Life's too short to deal with wackos.

   Jim

[KC9KAS 4,741]

So what exactlly was he selling for $250?

[ericj 1,578]

i also saw the 14 auto with the wheel weights on it and call the guy got the same story. he said that he had 2 offers on the weights one for $ 400.00 and a second collector told him that the front weights were very rare and offered him $ 500.00.i asked him who it was, and got the don't remember the name story. but yea he wanted $ 500.00 for the 14 and $ 500.00 for the weights or $ 900.00 for the whole deal. he told me to email him and he would send some pictures of the tractor and the really "nice" 48" deck. last year, at the 2012 whcc show i sold a very nice original 14 auto with a rebuilt motor for about the same price it wasn't perfect but nice 1 owner tractor. i never bothered to email him . i also told him if somebody offered him $ 500.00 for the weights he better take it quick. if i can ever get my imageshak to up load i will post pictures and story of the 518-H that i recently bought that puts a little faith back into c/l posters

 

 

eric j

[Lagersolut 648]

I had a guy on CL advertising a 312-8 - after I pull in says he tried to call me all day , has a guy coming over at 5 going 100 over the asking price of 650  ( I have very little patients for silly games )  long story short the tractor was worth about maybe 2-3 in it's condition , I walked away too .....I guess his 100 over the asking never showed - tractor was still listed months later ....hood was wrong, insignia's painted over  - no ID plates - 10 different rattle can reds - wiring was fiddled with - motor ran good and that was the only plus .

Edited July 10, 2013 by Golds-Red

[Irv 115]

Lately I'm seeing ridiculous prices for tractors and attachments and parts on cl and ebay. I don't know what's happened to make people think what they have is worth that much but it sure isn't to me. The decent deals are still out there I'm sure, but they are fewer and farther between.

[Road-Track 39]

I just picked up a 48" dozer blade 1990 era for $60 without the rear bracket from a Wheelhorse dealer. It was in great shape.

 

You just need to ask. He was happy just to see it being used.

 

Just keep an eye out and the deals will come.

 

I picked up an almost brand new 42" long chute snowblower also for $60 and a nice Original Cab for $60.

 

It's simple. Just say will you take $60. Walk away if they want more. 

 

If you aren't using it, pass it on for $60

[MalMac 1,331]

I have seen the same thing with prices being high, That does not always mean the sellers are getting their price though. Keep seeing the same add being re listed both on CL and eBay. You would think after 2 or 3 months the seller might get clued in thats it's just not going to happen. Now with all that being said Wheel Horse prices will start creaping up as Toro keeps discontinuing parts. Even though there is still a lot of Wheel Horse out there be it tractors, attachments,parts just the fact that it's not made any more will start to drive prices up. Myself I think that Toro's supply is coming to a quicker end than expected and when the day comes that you can't get hardly anything from Toro that's when Wheel Horse will start it's slow change over from a working tractor to just a parade or show piece. It's gona happen that's a fact. Just when and how soon we will just have to wait and see. But like said earlier when the muscle car went away look what happen. As normal everyday parts become unavailable the law of supply and demand will kick in. It's just some people out there on CL seem to think that it's happen now and just because it's say Wheel Horse on the Hood it must be the limited 420 and commands a top dollar price.

[Wheel Horse Kid 105]

I have seen the same thing with prices being high, That does not always mean the sellers are getting their price though. Keep seeing the same add being re listed both on CL and eBay. You would think after 2 or 3 months the seller might get clued in thats it's just not going to happen. Now with all that being said Wheel Horse prices will start creaping up as Toro keeps discontinuing parts. Even though there is still a lot of Wheel Horse out there be it tractors, attachments,parts just the fact that it's not made any more will start to drive prices up. Myself I think that Toro's supply is coming to a quicker end than expected and when the day comes that you can't get hardly anything from Toro that's when Wheel Horse will start it's slow change over from a working tractor to just a parade or show piece. It's gona happen that's a fact. Just when and how soon we will just have to wait and see. But like said earlier when the muscle car went away look what happen. As normal everyday parts become unavailable the law of supply and demand will kick in. It's just some people out there on CL seem to think that it's happen now and just because it's say Wheel Horse on the Hood it must be the limited 420 and commands a top dollar price.

 

As much as I would like to say you are wrong about Wheel Horse prices going up in the future, I kinda have the same feelings that you have. Like you said, it is only a matter of time until the prices are bound to go up. All part of supply and demand. As more get into the hobby and parts diminish, prices are bound to go up. Personally, this has been something I have feared for awhile now with the tractor hobby and after seeing the prices go up over this last year, I kinda only think it is going to get worse as time goes on. Even Brandon Pfeiffer touched on this in the latest issue of the Lawn and Garden Tractor magazine. I remember my dad telling me once that he had the opportunity to buy a fairly nice '69 Plymouth Roadrunner (Think it was a Hemi car) back in the '80's for $900! Just think of that. Today, that same car would probably bring $50-100k. I realize that is a little different from a Garden tractor, but the same principle still applies.  I do hope though that prices stay resonable for a long time to come as I think that alot of "common joes"  so to speak would not be able to do the hobby anymore unless they already had tractors from when prices were cheaper. Sorry to cast a black cloud but it is just my .

[Ken B 3,164]

I'm not too sure what happened with your little adventure but all I can say is this. Expect the unexpected when dealing with Craigslist. Out of every 10 losers there are usually 2 honest guys just looking to make an honest sale. I will no longer travel more than an hr. for a Craigslist ad as I've walked away disappointed too many times. As far as prices going up, maybe only the tractors that us collectors are interested in I'd say. That and yes the parts that we use on our worker tractors such as mower decks and the normal wear and tear parts if they become discontinued. Your every day guy just looking to cut his grass isn't looking for a Wheel Horse, he is looking for something newer with a cup holder with a name that he recognizes and most times that is just a regular box store lawn tractor. We often laugh at these cheapie lawn tractors but with just a little maintenance they will last a very long time. I just sold my Dads 1994 White lawn tractor. It cut over an acre of grass a week and yet it still looked and ran like new with just some light regular maintenance. It even did a real nice job doing what it was designed to do, cut grass! It was an easy sell at 450 bucks and it was only listed on Craigslist for two days. First guy that saw it bought it and he didn't try to talk me down. He was just an honest guy looking to cut his grass. I learned a long time ago that there isn't too much money in fixing up Wheel Horse's to resell so I only buy something that I want to keep and enjoy for a little while. The trick is to only pay what you honestly think you can resell it for once you become tired with it, or you want to make some room for the "next one" that you can't possibly live without. I think Kelly would know best if the prices are going up......

[grnlark 479]

As much as I might like a particular tractor, sometimes in situations like that you just have to walk away. On the flipside, I've also been in situations where there was a tractor I wanted regardless of what it took and I knowingly overpaid but I didn't care - because I wanted it. In several recent situations I've heard the, "...well there's one on eBay for...". Just because it's listed for a certain dollar amount doesn't mean it has bids or will sell for that. People think the nose-bleed asking prices of eBay set the market values. In some cases they certainly do. My most recent purchase is a fine example: The guy was asking $4500 because, "...there is one listed on eBay for $2700 in much worse shape". It was great for me becasue no one even entertained contacting the guy because he was clearly crazy with his price. Needless to say, two weeks later I was the only person that responded to the ad and there I was loading my trailer for $800. The thing I do struggle with though is like a JD Patio tractor for example - $3500-4000? It's not a Pond Sr. or a RJ25 or something super rare. At the end of the day, they're all garden tractors regardless of how you shake a stick at them. They will never be a Stanley Steamer or a '70 Superbird.

 

[boovuc 1,090]

Makes me want to apologize for the way a fellow Pennsylvanianite treated you but I'm not surprised. That guy's family/estate can sell the "useless" rusted junk at an auction. I saw it many times where a guy says he wants to sell something, advertises it then spews about how much in demand that "item" is and jacks the price up to where no one will buy it. He simply doesn't want to get rid of it!

Idiots because they have no apathy toward what they put other people through. I'm getting rid of a slotted hood from the 312-Auto I was given. Some RS members are driving about 100 miles to get it later this month and the cost is nothing to them but gas! When money and the need to hold onto material things that aren't doing a thing for you take over, you wind up on the Discovery Channel in a short period of time!

[bean 85]

 When money and the need to hold onto material things that aren't doing a thing for you take over, you wind up on the Discovery Channel in a short period of time!

 

that's why i'm limited to 1 tractor., when I was into motorcycles/atvs, I had 6 or 7 in the garage. a dozen different exhausts, seats, etc.

later, I started fabricating sheet metal for a contractor buddy of mine, and now have my entire garage filled with equipment.

I had an rj, 854, no name 8hp, and a 310-8 in a short amount of time. my wife saw the handwriting on the wall, and said "am I ever going to be able to park in the garage?" now, Im busted down to 1 tractor

fortunately though, I;m the only one on this forum who tends to get carried away with his hobbies.

[leeave96 487]

I think I'd buy an MTD before giving that dude a dollar.  Sounds like his post on CL was misleading too - might consider flagging it for removal.