limited12 360 #1 Posted July 5, 2013 Went to look at a 79 C-141 the other day, the owner was trying to start it when i got there, he had a battery charger hooked up to it, was jumping it at the solenoid but still would not start. He told me the mower has been starting ok till then. We messed with it for a while with no results, then we tried with the key again, it turned over and fired right up, cut it off a few min after running we cut it off then tried to start it again with the key but nothing not even a clicking sound. After discussing this for a few i decided to go ahead and buy this unit. When i got it home i decided to change the solenoid , key switch, positive and ground cable, new spark plug and installed a good battery. After that was done i would get a clicking sound, but nothing else. After trying this a couple more times i noticed a spark coming off a spring on the side of the pto rod. After further looking i noticed ground wire was broke, this one runs from motor mount to motor mount, replace the ground wire try to start with the key switch, turned over great, stopped trying to check a couple of items, went back to start it and nothing, not even a clicking sound. i have checked everything and still nothing, this mower does have three saftey switches, one for the seat, clutch pedal and one the for the pto. I NEED SOME HELP, ANY ADVICE. PS The mower has been sitting for thirteen years inside, it was owned by a church and this person got it from them two years ago and it has sat outside since then Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,203 #2 Posted July 6, 2013 What's that fuse holder on top of the battery? Lights I think, yes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,203 #3 Posted July 6, 2013 There's a wiring diagram on page 29 of this manual: http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/files/file/1283-tractor-1979-bcd-series-om-wiring-810134r1-bpdf/ Seat switch shouldn't prevent starter from turning over... Either PTO or PEDAL switch will. Do you have a multimeter and know how to use it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,203 #4 Posted July 6, 2013 Hold the key in the start position and 'work' the PTO lever a bit... do the same with the clutch pedal. What happens? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
limited12 360 #5 Posted July 6, 2013 Fuse holder is for the lights, do not have a meter but will be getting one tomorrow. I did hold the switch in the start position and moved the pto no results, did not try the clutch lever Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 15,911 #6 Posted July 6, 2013 (edited) You have a bad ground. The C-141 has a cradle mounted engine. The engine grounds to the frame through a cable from the cradle to the frame. Check all of your grounds and I am sure you will find a bad connection. Very common problem with cradle mounted engines. The sparking you saw was the engine trying to ground itself through the PTO Edited July 6, 2013 by rmaynard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,203 #7 Posted July 6, 2013 After further looking i noticed ground wire was broke, this one runs from motor mount to motor mount, replace the ground wire I think he replaced the cradle ground... But re-reading it, why is the ground going from "... mount to mount ... " ? Shouldn't it be going from cradle to chassis? Maybe that ground isn't ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
limited12 360 #8 Posted July 6, 2013 Sorry i typed it in wrong i did replace the ground at the cradle mount and it went to cradle mount to the frame. I will be working on this today, could i still have a bad solenoid even though i replaced it with a new one? When i went to look at this unit it had just finished raining and the po had sprayed everything down with wd-40 (sorry i forgot to mention that) I not a electrical guy so sorry for all the questions I will give every one an update today, i did go out this morning and check a few items with my test light, no power to the switch. i guess i will try to chase the wiring harness from the solenoid back to the switch to see if i have a bad wire? Thanks again for the advice, i know i will need a lot more Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Save Old Iron 1,568 #9 Posted July 6, 2013 The (black) negative battery cable in the pic you posted looks to be in very bad shape. The insulation looks to be fractured and the connection of the wire to the terminal at the battery post looks to be heavily corroded. The negative battery cable looks very suspicious from where I sit. To rule out a bad solenoid, place a jumper wire between the two large top posts on the solenoid. This will bypass any corrosion that might exist inside the solenoid. If the solenoid is defective, with the jumper in place, the starter motor will crank as long as the jumper is across the top terminals. You mentioned looking for poor connections at the ignition switch. This could also be an area that is starving the power from being transferred to the trigger of the starter solenoid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Save Old Iron 1,568 #10 Posted July 6, 2013 When you have a multimeter in hand, check the battery voltage when you try to crank the engine. If the battery voltage drops below 10 volts, you may have a battery with no capacity left. This issue will also cause the "clicking" syndrome you mentioned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
limited12 360 #11 Posted July 6, 2013 This morning I checked to see if I had power to the switch, I did not, check the fuse link,fuse is good, still no power,bypassed the fuse link know I have power at the switch and for the first time the headlights come on. The battery is 2months old and no corrosion the pic sure makes it look like I am going to get a volt meter and a fuse link and a new negative cable Will check the battery when I get back and let you know what I got Could my safety switches be bad? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,203 #12 Posted July 6, 2013 I am going to get a ..... fuse link ... You are talking about the 25 AMP fuse that runs from the solenoid back through the ammeter, back to the ignition switch? Make sure you get one that has LARGE ENOUGH WIRE to carry the 25 AMP rating... which is _USUALLY_ going to be less than that value ... but still, for that circuit I would not go less than say 14 Ga wire... and I would probably use an automotive inline type of fuse and fuse holder. MUCH easier to get replacements for these now a days... and a new negative cable I thought you said early on that you already replaced that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
limited12 360 #13 Posted July 6, 2013 I got a new ground cable, I got the new fuse link, 14 gauge wire, automotive type. Tried to start it , nothing Bypassed the clutch safety switch, after several minutes of cussing, fussing and other things tried it again, started right up and runs like a kitten. So I am hopping that I can get a new safety switch, probably need to order it, then all will be well......... Thanks to everyone for all the help and advice Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
