Another year another problem

[Joshua Hunt 2]

Preface:  I am not mechanically inclined but I try to DIY and have some knowledgeable friends.

 

I'll try to post pictures to help you help me if possible.  When I turn the key I hear NOTHING NOTHING.  All of a sudden.  Battery is good, Solenoid is new, battery cables are new.  Power from battery to solenoid = check.  When I turn the key and check ignition to solenoid I don't get power.  I am using one of those check lights grounded to the battery.

 

One thing I am thinking is it is a safety shut off but any type of wiring diagram confuses the heLL out of me.  While putting on the new solenoid I noticed a cable not attached to anything.  I also realize I could have put things back together wrong but it wasn't working before and isn't working now.  

 

Here are some pics. 

[squonk 41,165]

A single terminal solenoid like that needs to be grounded. I don't see it bolted down. oops my bad now I see the bolts. Is the engine grounded good?

Edited July 3, 2013 by squonk

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

What model tractor?

[rmaynard 15,519]

Don't know what tractor you are working on, so that is my first question  With a K241 engine, my guess is that it's a B-100 or C-100. Both have a clutch safety switch, and a PTO safety switch. PTO must be disengaged, and the clutch must be depressed in order to get power to the coil of the solenoid.

 

[Anglo Traction 761]

The stray Red wire look's like part of the Ignition Circuit highlighted in Red that Bob Posted for you. The Hook connector is identical to the ones on Switches for the PTO and Clutch Pedal. Check both these switches for correct connections.

 

Regards

Edited July 3, 2013 by Anglo Traction

[Joshua Hunt 2]

What model tractor?

C-100 1975 I believe.

[Joshua Hunt 2]

The stray Red wire look's like part of the Ignition Circuit highlighted in Red that Bob Posted for you. The Hook connector is identical to the ones on Switches for the PTO and Clutch Pedal. Check both these switches for correct connections.

 

Regards

When the clutch is engaged it pushes a small ball joint flush with the side of the tractor.  Looking behind where the ball is pushed in I see one of the red wires attached.  There is quite a bit of debris in that small area and it is tough to see.  I was curious if both wires, the one attached and the HOOK wire seen in picture two attach in the same area.  If so, I'm not sure how to get it on there.  If anyone has a similar model could you take a picture?  The wiring diagram reminds me of organic chemistry II.  I can follow it but don't know where exactly the wires should be when properly connected.

[Joshua Hunt 2]

Don't know what tractor you are working on, so that is my first question  With a K241 engine, my guess is that it's a B-100 or C-100. Both have a clutch safety switch, and a PTO safety switch. PTO must be disengaged, and the clutch must be depressed in order to get power to the coil of the solenoid.

 

B-60, 80 C-120, 160 Wiring_RED.jpg

I'm having problems figuring out where that hook wire attaches.  Are there two red wires that attach behind where the clutch sits while engaged?

If anyone has a similar setup and can snap a few pics or knows where I can see some online fire away.

 

Thanks again for everyones input.

[Joshua Hunt 2]

If all you helpers haven't figured it out yet, I am new to anything engine related.  Based on earlier posts, I found a picture of this model where you can see two red wires connected near the clutch.  If I can reattach the hook wire in picture two correctly, is there a good chance that the tractor will just fire up like it has for the last year : )???

 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

 

... is there a good chance the tractor will fire up ...

 

I would definitely NOT recommend just 'trying it' to see what happens...

 

It MAY be where the wire comes from, but when you are dealing with wires and electricity, you do NOT want to simply take a wild azz guess and 'experiment'.

 

You need to KNOW with some degree of certainty that the wire you are replacing is going where it needs to go.

 

To do otherwise could in fact bring meaning to your statement including the term  ' fire up ' ... 

 

I'm not familiar with your model but I can read schematics...  I 5ucked at organic chemistry though...  I can't get to the schematic you posted here at my 'day job' but if nobody has helped before this evening, I'll take a look at it then.

 

If you can trace that errant wire back to it's source and tell us where it comes from that would help...

[Joshua Hunt 2]

 

 

... is there a good chance the tractor will fire up ...

 

I would definitely NOT recommend just 'trying it' to see what happens...

 

It MAY be where the wire comes from, but when you are dealing with wires and electricity, you do NOT want to simply take a wild azz guess and 'experiment'.

 

You need to KNOW with some degree of certainty that the wire you are replacing is going where it needs to go.

 

To do otherwise could in fact bring meaning to your statement including the term  ' fire up ' ... 

 

I'm not familiar with your model but I can read schematics...  I 5ucked at organic chemistry though...  I can't get to the schematic you posted here at my 'day job' but if nobody has helped before this evening, I'll take a look at it then.

 

If you can trace that errant wire back to it's source and tell us where it comes from that would help...

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

All I posted was a picture that shows two of the red wires running to, what I assume to be, to the safety switch for the clutch.  I currently have one attached and the other I believe is my loose hanging hook wire in the second picture.  On my lunch break I will take a better look.

[rmaynard 15,519]

The clutch safety switch should have two wires attached. That switch is in series with the wire coming from the start terminal of the ignition switch to the solenoid. "In series" means that it is part of the complete circuit. You have to think of the circuit as a circle (hence the name). The circle starts at the (+) terminal of the battery, goes to the ignition switch, through the PTO switch, through the clutch safety switch, to the (+) terminal of the coil on the solenoid, through the solenoid coil to ground. Since ground is also connected to the (-) terminal of the battery, you have made a complete circle. Any break in that circle will keep the solenoid from engaging. The circle is broken when you release the start switch, release the clutch or engage the PTO. Any loose or disconnected wire will also break the circle.

 

The wiring harness on the C-100 is probably one of the simplest there is. It is quite easy for even a "non electrical" person to figure it out without even a meter or test light. It is a matter of just finding the wire to the small terminal on the solenoid and see where it goes. On the C-100 that wire should go down to one terminal of the clutch safety switch. From the other terminal of the clutch safety switch, a wire should go to one terminal of the PTO switch. From the other terminal of the PTO switch, a wire should go directly to the (S) starter terminal of the ignition switch. All of this should be able to be seen by the naked eye.

[Joshua Hunt 2]

The clutch safety switch should have two wires attached. That switch is in series with the wire coming from the start terminal of the ignition switch to the solenoid. "In series" means that it is part of the complete circuit. You have to think of the circuit as a circle (hence the name). The circle starts at the (+) terminal of the battery, goes to the ignition switch, through the PTO switch, through the clutch safety switch, to the (+) terminal of the coil on the solenoid, through the solenoid coil to ground. Since ground is also connected to the (-) terminal of the battery, you have made a complete circle. Any break in that circle will keep the solenoid from engaging. The circle is broken when you release the start switch, release the clutch or engage the PTO. Any loose or disconnected wire will also break the circle.

 

The wiring harness on the C-100 is probably one of the simplest there is. It is quite easy for even a "non electrical" person to figure it out without even a meter or test light. It is a matter of just finding the wire to the small terminal on the solenoid and see where it goes. On the C-100 that wire should go down to one terminal of the clutch safety switch. From the other terminal of the clutch safety switch, a wire should go to one terminal of the PTO switch. From the other terminal of the PTO switch, a wire should go directly to the (S) starter terminal of the ignition switch. All of this should be able to be seen by the naked eye.

 

Well written & easy to understand...Thank you!

[Joshua Hunt 2]

I couldnt properly connect the loose red hook wire in pic #2 to the shut off near the clutch but I could get it to sit there while I tried to start the mower and it started effortlessly.  I just need to figure out how to get it attached now.  Thanks to everyone for the input!

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

This image will provide further orientation on how the wiring progresses from the ignition switch thru the safety switches and ends with terminating at the starter relay.

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

The safety switches should look similar to this

 

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

The wiring for the safety switches should be contained in a two terminal housing shown in the center of the image posted below

 

 

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Cavity-Packard-56-Series-Female-Electrical-Connector-Connectors-10-PACK-/140893741332?hash=item20cdebe114&vxp=mtr

 

 

these connector housings may be available at NAPA. Grab a few #56 style Packard female brass or tin plated terminals and crimp the loose wire(s) onto new terminals and insert the terminals into the connector. The connector then slides over the two posts on the backside of the safety switch.

[rmaynard 15,519]

Just found my C-100 wiring diagram, and I hate to add another monkey wrench to the works, but the C-100 has a seat switch. The start circuit passes through the connector.

 

It's not a real clear pic, but here is the diagram.

 

 

 

[Joshua Hunt 2]

This image will provide further orientation on ho...w the wiring progresses from the ignition switch thru the safety switches and ends with terminating at the starter relay.

 

Perfect