C-101 8 speed trans

[Lagersolut 690]

 

 

Here's my C-101 , she's been work'n hard push'n snow, plowing garden , mowing etc last 19 years .

 

I decided this year I'm doing a restore, new paint , motor work,  decals ....everything ....

 

 

First thing I'm tackling is the trans, checked the axles , already know at least the needle bearings are bad ( lots of slop & oil seepage ), I've never done a tranny before and I'm plenty nervous, looking for advice .....should I just worry about the things that are bad and replace as necessary or since it's cracked open anyhow go the whole 9 yards and do all the bearings ?

 

What tools do I need to stay out of trouble - I have snap ring pliers -pullers -torque wrenches inch and ft lbs lots of sockets etc ( I noticed in the specs thrust washers I'm not faniliar with them )

 

I found a NOS 1533 on E bay loaded up on it just in case ( 125 ouch )

 

I don't want to get this apart and not be able to finish it .

 

( this is an old pic still has turf tread )

 

 

Thanks for any advice

 

 

 

 

P S

 

A funny

 

 

Many years ago the wife came up with an idea , we could put the Horse outside and park a car in the Garage

[pfrederi 17,986]

Search this section for many threads on how to do this.  Not really that hard, sounds like you have enough tools...

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,910]

There is no way we will let you tear it apart and not be here to help you get it back together.    Bearings that you find are OK do not need to be replaced.

[Duff 206]

Just checking - is the "slop" you refer to up and down or in and out? In and out is pretty normal on these

machines, and the oil seepage may just be bad seals - easy replacement (assuming the hubs come off without giving you fits!). 

 

~Duff 

[can whlvr 993]

i agree with all thats been said,dont be too worried about tearing into the tranny,its not as difficult as one might think,and you can watch the video that steveasaurus made,its a walk inthe park with that kinda help,hers what the tranny looks like apart

[Lagersolut 690]

Just checking - is the "slop" you refer to up and down or in and out? In and out is pretty normal on these

machines, and the oil seepage may just be bad seals - easy replacement (assuming the hubs come off without giving you fits!). 

 

~Duff 

 

 

It's up and down, ( good bit ) I took the time to read through some of these threads thinking it was just a seal looking for any pointers or info on installing it, I've installed a lot of seals over the years,  but I'm always open for info and problems to look for etc. when I came across a thread on checking the play in the axle ( it never even occurred to me I might have bad bearings ) .

 

I'm going to be in this for at least the needle bearings, I have a scary amount of up and down play on the left axle , planning on starting it this week .

[Lagersolut 690]

I have the transmission out of the tractor and already found what might be a problem, I have two " voids " or chips in the transmission case right where the seal seats in and these holes go almost back to the bearing , I'm thinking the oil is going to leak right around the seal through this damage .....

 

Is it  safe/possible  to seat the needle bearing say 1/16 to 1/8 " further in and double seal it to get past this damage or am I in this for a replacement left side case ?

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

Can you get a clear picture and post?

 

I'm thinking that this might be something could be fixed up with JB Weld... ?

[racinfool40 202]

Just throwing this out there..I have some spare cases if ya need them!..

[stevasaurus 22,910]

The short answer is yes...you can go either way and maybe be OK.  Let's crunch some numbers...transmission Wheel Horse #103916...just to be sure...we are talking the brake shaft side of the case.?  What did you find with bad bearings and gears.??  The thinking is that if you put in 2 seals, the outer one may not get any lubrication and will put premature wear on the axle.  A left side case may be the best answer.  You are looking at what is wrong...do you think you could fix it with JB Weld...could you spray weld and turn it??  JB Weld may work if you are not in a place that has issues.  I think we really need to know what you found wrong in the transmission...you know we love pictures.  There are options.

[Lagersolut 690]

Can you get a clear picture and post?

 

I'm thinking that this might be something could be fixed up with JB Weld... ?

 

 

I'll try to get some pics and upload them then, I have to do it on my wife's laptop , I don't have the programs on my desktop puter to upload the pics from the canera to my hard drive ....

[Lagersolut 690]

Just throwing this out there..I have some spare cases if ya need them!..

 

 

 

 

I may need to take you up on that , the # stamp on my case ( tractor is a  '79  C101-8 speed ) is 8195 - the left  ( brake drum / band ) side .

 

 

 

The short answer is yes...you can go either way and maybe be OK.  Let's crunch some numbers...transmission Wheel Horse #103916...just to be sure...we are talking the brake shaft side of the case.?  What did you find with bad bearings and gears.??  The thinking is that if you put in 2 seals, the outer one may not get any lubrication and will put premature wear on the axle.  A left side case may be the best answer.  You are looking at what is wrong...do you think you could fix it with JB Weld...could you spray weld and turn it??  JB Weld may work if you are not in a place that has issues.  I think we really need to know what you found wrong in the transmission...you know we love pictures.  There are options.

 

 

So far the bearings really aren't "  terrible "  but every seal is leaking bad, let me take some time here and try to get some pics up so you guys can make a better assessment of what  I have here to see what the next step is . 

 

I didn't break it open yet , I wanted to get advice on this issue before proceeding but as far as play in the shafts and axles ( up and down ) I didn't find anything " excessive "

 

 

 

Bryan

[Lagersolut 690]

OK  here's what I have so far :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

That appears to be a problem with the casting.  I'm surprised that got past the QC inspectors.

[WH nut 553]

Looks to me like the hub was slide to far back and wore into the case

[stevasaurus 22,910]

Well...here is where I am at...and I will bet there is 30 guys out there that already know what I am going to say.    You already have that transmission off the horse, you can see that you have at least one issue with the casting (and you can't fix that without getting that bearing out of the way). ...open that sucker up and see what else may be bad.  Racinfool40 said he has a left side if you need it...you can get bearings if they are bad and seals.  If it is just seals and a couple of bearings...maybe $50...but the trans is good for another 50 years...now that you will keep an eye on it better then the last 5 owners.    I think I would want to see how bad those cracks/holes/grooves really are.  Thanks for the pictures...worth a thousand words.

 

That casting actually looks broke in the second to the last picture (bottom right)...like some one was jumping something with the horse and the axle fractured the housing.  Take a look.

Edited June 1, 2013 by stevasaurus

[Lagersolut 690]

Gonna get her open today

 

Can you guys give me an idea ( I'm really not familiar with these needle bearing set ups )  on tolerances , what is and or isn't an acceptable amount of play  in or out up or down, as it sits I have little to none up and down but plenty in and out ?

 

a) input shaft

 

axles

 

c) brake drum shaft etc ?

 

also is there a " quick trick " for the detent plug ?

 

Thanks

 

( I'll probably have you guys nuts with questions till I get this done )

[pfrederi 17,986]

In and out about 1/8" +/- is OK

You shouldn't be able to feel any up/down front back movement at all.  Frankly the axle needle bearings are less than $10 each I would just replace them.  Other than damage from metal chips/rust i have never seen a wear problem with any other needle bearings.

 

Ice pick or thin blade screw driver for the detent plug.  Also sometimes you can get an easy out to bite into it.

[stevasaurus 22,910]

File any and all burrs on the ends of the axles, input and brake shafts.  You will know if a bearing is not good.  They look spent and when you put your finger in and try to turn the needles, it just doesn't feel right.

[Lagersolut 690]

File any and all burrs on the ends of the axles, input and brake shafts.  You will know if a bearing is not good.  They look spent and when you put your finger in and try to turn the needles, it just doesn't feel right.

 

 

 

I'm in this thing up to my elbows now   anyhow , case is apart I'm finding the normal " fines " of metal from years of use but I also found " chunks " ....took me awhile to find it but I have a fork  broke ( one side ) ....all the gear teeth look OK I'm not finding any chips or breaks yet ...one thing I found that makes absolutely no sense .... the business end of a sheet metal screw  ( I'm scratching my head on this one ) ....needle bearings in the axle case  are all in tact,  but I think my one 1533   has a rough spot ( I have 1 ) ....I was kind of hoping this tear down would stop at  the axles and diff ......not going to be the case ....  case is rusty up to the oil line along with surface rust on a few parts .

 

PS

 

I did the filing on the burr's before tear down

[stevasaurus 22,910]

You are having way too much fun.   That screw is a new one on me...no idea.  Post some more pictures, I never get tired of looking inside a transmission.

[Lagersolut 690]

You are having way too much fun.   That screw is a new one on me...no idea.  Post some more pictures, I never get tired of looking inside a transmission.

 

 

1"  cup closed needle shot

 

 

 

Broken fork

 

 

 

Left side case

 

 

 

 

 

Right side case

 

 

[Lagersolut 690]

I need to replace that right side 1533 roller bearing ......what is the trick to geting these guys in and out ?

[Lagersolut 690]

Here she is - the start of a new begining ( engine comes out tomorow  )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,910]

Getting those #1533 bearings out has been a major pain for me.  I think they make a tool for them, but I have not seen it.  I had great luck with the last ones I had to remove though.  I have an air chisel with a narrow flat blade.  I put the blade in there as best I could and gave the trigger a small burst of air.  It popped right out.  Tried it on the other side and the same thing...popped right out.  I went and bought a Lottery ticket after that.

 

I had just the outer race in there once...bought a hardened bit for my Dremel tool and worked at it for about 40 minutes before I got it cut enough to brake out.

 

Your transmission looks real good inside, those needle bearings look good from here also.  Send a PM to racinfool40 to replace that broken fork.