Pto- belt question/problem

[thehorse 221]

Was taking the 416-8 out tonight for its first real grss cutting since I finished it. I put an hr in. Well the pto to deck belt is a new blur huskey. I know....should have for a toro. Well as I was finishing up I noticed a blur coating of belt all over the side of the tractor. I felt the pto and it was to hot to hold onto. Anyone know what I should look for here?

Thanks

Len

[Don1977 604]

If I understand what you just wrote, I think the belt is slipping on the PTO pulley. Could be that the belt isn't tight enough. Could be bad idler pulleys on the mule drive or bad bearings in the center pulley on the deck causing the belt to slip. Try to find the problem before buying a new belt.

[thehorse 221]

I just went to garage and the pto is still pretty warm and its been over an hour.

[WH nut 553]

Sounds like you have a bad pulley or bearing, PTO to deck. You need to check it out

[thehorse 221]

Ok...bearing in the pto or mule drive.......check both?

[thehorse 221]

Ok just checker idler pullies on mule drive. Th vbelt pulley seems be on the less than great side but spins freely just not long or smooth. The pto bearings seem like they would be ok.....smooth. If the mule pulley is the culprit, why the hot pto? I've been mowing with my other horse for 3 years and never noticed it being very hot, but never had a reason to check it.???????

[WH nut 553]

You need to check all the pulleys and bearing on the deck also. The heat will transfer through the belt. Check everything that belt drives.

[thehorse 221]

I replaced housings on 2 of the 3 spindles last weekend. Everything seemed in order. Even the good one I did not have to replace. I'll keep looking and thank you. A little frustrating.

[dsholler 54]

I had the same hot pto symptom, and it turned out to be the front bearing on the pto running rough. I replaced both bearings and the race for the pto with the help of the good folks on red square and it has been perfect so far. I also went and replaced the shaft and oil seal as well.

[dsholler 54]

[thehorse 221]

Ok...checked pullies and bearings all seem in order except the angle of belt coming off of v idler pulley of the mule drive seems off some. The angle is pretty steep going to double pulley on deck. Any suggestions?

[Hodge71 664]

Angle really shouldnt have anything to do with it heating up. I have never had a Wheel Horse belt get hot on me, but I have had horrible luck with the blue Husky belts from Tractor Supply. I tried one two weeks ago when I got a 42" RD deck for my 416 and my local WH dealer was closed. I ran and got a Huskee belt from TSC because it was Sunday and they were the only place open. Used it for about 15 minutes before I noticed blue fuzzy dust all over. I retensioned it and it didnt really help. The belt was red hot to the touch and so was the deck drive pulley and the PTO, so I stopped mowing. . I ran and got a WH belt first thing monday morning and put it on and tensioned it. Ran it for about 5 minutes until I noticed it flapping a bit. I retensioned it  and havent had a problem since then. All pulleys and belt nice and cool the last 2 times I cut the grass. I just used it at my hunting club where the grass hasnt been mowed yet this year, it was over a foot tall. I cut it in the transport position, taking about 8 inches off  and it mowed like a champ. I was  amazed...    

[Wheelhorsedairyfarmer 13]

Ok, as all the folks have already said, check all the bearings, the pto pulley on the motor, the mule drive pulley bearings, and the bearings/spindles on the deck. You mentioned a very steep angle on the mule drive, could be that the belt might be a few inches too long. I run 42 inch rear discharge decks on a 310-8 and a c-141, and use a 95x1/2 v-belt from the pto to the deck. However, I picked up a 42 inch side discharge, and found it takes a longer belt (unsure of the length, just grabbed a longer one I had in the garage). If the belt is too long and your mule drive is at a steep angle, it could make things hotter than they should be, and the steep angle will run the belt on a bind on the mule drive, and will eventually twist the belt. 

[wallfish 17,105]

If you are seeing dust and the PTO is hot, something is slipping, either the belt or the clutch. Could that dust be the clutch lining material? Bell housing slipping on the clutch? The tension for the clutch can be adjusted with a couple of turns of that trunion.

[thehorse 221]

Well,,,the belt I put in it was a blue huskey from ts again because It was Sunday and I really wanted to try the new machine out. I will get a wh belt and try it!

[squonk 41,627]

I've run Husky belts for 3 years on my C-160 with absolutely no problems. Hydro PTO and deck. I sold Gates belt for 10 years earlier and the kevlar belts are super strong. If you got a belt burning up fraying ect and it's new you have alignment/bearing problems ect. Example: I used to have a 210-H Vertical shaft Briggs. I hooked up a Allis snowblower designed for a horiz engine. I used a Gates green belt with a single twist and a cobbed tensioner. I would get 3 seasons out of that belt.

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

When the PTO is engaged, the whole thing moves in unison with the engine shaft, so one item I believe you can rule out is the needle roller inside the PTO pulley housing.  The only time that bearing spins is when the PTO is in 'neutral'.

[thehorse 221]

I pulled pto bell housing.......needle bearings were good. Greased liberally and put back together. All spindles in deck are spinning nicely. I think the problem may be in the mule drive. Pulleys spin freely with no wobble. When the deck is installed and belt is tightened up, there is only about 1/16 gap between the mule drive belt shield and the flat side if the vbelt coming off the pulley. I have no idea how a mule drive can be out of whack.....but it just does not look correct. Seems like the spacers are where they should be.

There was also a lot of blue belt dust inside the mule drive belt shield when I took it off.

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

The angle is pretty steep going to double pulley on deck

 

 

Your belt is on the inside pulley, yes?

[Don1977 604]

Is the belt hitting the front axle? If you have the wrong size belt it could. I have seen Wheel Horses  with a groove wore in the top of the axle.

[dsholler 54]

Did you lose the spacer that is supposed to be between the pulley and the guard on the mule?

It is easy to do, mine sometimes falls off when I take the cover off. I had to locate a new one just now

See

Maybe try a longer spacer on the outside? There are plenty of threads on the axle

.

[thehorse 221]

The spacer is in place. The belt is on the inside pulley. The belt is if I recall 1/2x98. The deck is a 42 rd. 78350. Maybe I'll try a 97 in belt.

I don't think it's hitting the axle. On my 314 it did and yea...there is a groove. Amazing.

[varosd 1,185]

do you have another mule that you could switch out to see if it's the mule drive?

[squonk 41,627]

Something sharp is grinding up the belt. The don't fray up just because they run.  I used to get a lot of people who bought green belts and brought them back within  week all tore up demanding new ones. I said you pay for the 2nd and bring your tractor/deck in for me to look at. If I couldn't find the problem I'd refund the first belt. Never had to give out a free belt. Always found a bad bearing or some kind of alignment problem.

[squonk 41,627]

Here are pics of my C-160 with the Huskee belts. The tractor drive belt has 110 hours. The PTO belt has about between 80-90 hrs. The deck belt hast about 40. No fraying. I did replace the outer PTO bell bearing last summer.