653 WH wont move?

[tracer 3]

Riding the wheel horse around the yard the other day, when going up an incline a popping was heard and the WH quit moving. Could this be an axle?

[Coadster32 793]

Assuming that the motor was still running, it is a possibility. It might be something else transmission related as well. I think I'd take the drive belt off, and raise the back tires off the ground. Try to turn a rear tire by hand, and see what's out of place. It is quite possible that if you put any real power to it, you might do more damage internally. 

[WH nut 553]

Check and make sure the belt is good. Also check the pully on the trans. Make sure the key didnt break

[stevasaurus 22,700]

Do what was said above...put on blocks, take of belt and guard. With the trans in neutral, rotate one of the wheels in either direction...the opposite wheel should rotate it the other direction.  This will tell you if your differential is OK, but that is about all.  Put it into a gear and turn the input pulley (by hand) in a counter clockwise direction.  Both wheels should turn in the same direction.  Try any and all gears (by hand).  If the noise you heard sounded like a BB being shot out of a cannon inside the case, you probably have a # 1533 bearing that lost it's balls.   This picture shows what that looks like...

 

 

There are 12 of those 1/4" balls in one of those bearings.  It is possible that one of them got stuck between some of your gears.  Forcing anything can do real damage. Make sure all of your wood ruff keys are OK first.  Let us know what you think.  The trans is fixable.

[tracer 3]

Thanks guys for the information,,,,Right now I am a bit under the weather..But will start checking the WH ASAP.

[stevasaurus 22,700]

Check out this thread also.  The only difference between your trans and this one is the hole the brake shaft comes out.  This thread has videos.

 

 

The videos do not seem to be working in the thread...here are the videos.

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2013 by stevasaurus

[tracer 3]

OK guys,,,,I have raised the wheels off the ground with a floor jack,,,turned each wheel by separately by hand. Only 1 wheel turns, the other does nothing. Removed the shifter and put into different gears and still the wheels turns only 1 at a time,,I can turn the wheels and they turn freely.

[tracer 3]

Also,,,When I turn the transmission pulley,,,Both wheels turn in the same direction a little. I tried turning the wheels again by hand and the left wheel seems to turn and then lock up,,,,sounds to me like transmission repair time. What do you think guys?

[stevasaurus 22,700]

Sounds like you chipped a gear in the differential...if you broke an axle, you should be able to pull one of the tires right out of the trans.  We can find parts once you open it up and see what happened.  Check those key ways when you start tearing it down.   Don't forget to take some pictures of the linkage and things as you go.

[tracer 3]

Oh bad news,,,Transmission was worse off than I expected,,,needle bearings, 1533 bearings, maybe some gears that have some bad teeth on them. Am cleaning parts now. Oh, well. I'll have a list up soon with the bad parts.

[stevasaurus 22,700]

Can you post some pictures of what you have...??  That would help us a lot to know what the damage is...and where we need to go to help you get it back together.

[tracer 3]

Here the first 4 pictures.

[tracer 3]

And the last 3 pictures.

[stevasaurus 22,700]

Great pictures...   Got some damage in there, but it is not that bad.  Those forks and shafts look OK, just need to clean up a couple of those notches a little.where the detente balls work. Your input shaft looks worse then it really is. You could use a new cluster gear.  That 1st/rev fork gear is OK depending on what you are going to use the horse for when you put it back together.  Mowing, moving snow should be OK...plowing dirt, maybe not.  Your 2nd/3rd fork gear looks good on the out side...take a good look at how it fits on the input shaft.  If it is a sloppy or bad fit, that is when the trans will pop out of 3rd gear. Great job so far...thanks for the pictures.

[tracer 3]

Took apart the differential and looks like I need the 4 pinion gears as well. Everything else looks OK. Will the 855 4 pinion gears work on the 653? Looks like I will be watching E Bay alot.....

[stevasaurus 22,700]

Yes...the pinions are the same.

[Coadster32 793]

You also might consider a full tranny swap as well, depending on what you find for parts. Looks like the bearing in the first picture is missing a few balls as well. Like Steve said, the gears, and shafts aren't as bad as you might think from first glance. You might want to take a look at the bottom of the shifter shaft as well. That could be worn a bit as well.

 

BTW-- Pretty cool to see you diving right into it.

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

In the very first pic, right in the center... there's what appears to be the remains of a needle roller bearing, it looks 'gray' in the hole.  The needle roller is gone...  is that bore egg shaped?  Looks like it in the photo?

[stevasaurus 22,700]

It is not egg shaped...that is the just the drilling for the bearing through the casting.  That is one of the capped bearings...the needles are gone and the housing is still in there in the picture.  It just needs to be tapped out.

[tracer 3]

I am not giving up,,,LOL.  Just looking for input shaft with cluster gear and some pinions. I am not in a hurry. Just anxious.

[stevasaurus 22,700]

Send a PM to racinfool40...he has tranny parts and may have what you are looking for.

 

I did some looking around and checking numbers.  It looks like the cluster gear and the input shaft are the same number in both your transmission and my #5010  suburban.  I happen to have a spare cluster gear and input shaft that appear to be better then the ones you have.  Sorry, the differential pinions are a different number...you need # 4235.  Let me know if you are interested...I'll get a couple of pics.  Here are the pics of what I have.  The B-108 bearing in the input shaft is good.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2013 by stevasaurus

[Don1977 604]

If you have 1" axles take a look at Buckranchers modifitaction.  Requiers some machine work to the pinion housing, but the bearing and shims are avaible from McMaster Carr.

 

I was trying to copy the link but I haven't been able to. The tread topic is (1533 bearing substitution).

[Coadster32 793]

Around here...good help is easy to find.

 

You might take Steve up on the gears he has. They look in really nice condition, and are hard to find that way.

[tracer 3]

Wow,,,,those gears sure look better than mine. .  Steve do you have the high-low gear as well. The cluster gear on mine is bad also.  Thanks. I am interested.

[stevasaurus 22,700]

OK Tracer...I'm confused.  My gears will fit in a 5025 transmission, which is what I thought you were rebuilding.  Do you have another transmission with a hi/low that needs work?  I have no 6 or 8 speed parts...racinfool40 is the guy doing those.  Please...un-confuse me.