Bearings for my C-120 8 speed transmission

[bob393 3]

Hi everyone.

 

I'm new here and I've heard it's a great source of information.

 

The axle bearings are shot on my C-120 and when I look up the parts they are listed as discontinued

with no alternate parts.

 

Does anyone have current part numbers for replacement bearings and seals?

 

I believe it's two ball bearings, two needle bearings and two oil seals.

 

3-11,  3-14,   3-17 from the parts brake down in the manual.

 

Thanks and Hi again.

 

 

[Jake Kuhn 1,556]

The axle bearings are  part#1533 and are discontinued. Send a pm to racinfool40 as he might have a set for sale as he sells used tranny parts. For the numbers for the rest of the bearings and seals, stevasaurus has a chart and will probably post it here when he sees this thread.

 

~Jake

[SousaKerry 502]

Those 1533 bearings are almost impossible to get new. Your only options at this time are to either find a good used set or rebuild what you have. If the races are not worn badly you can replace the balls but it ain't easy and requires a bit of experience.

[stevasaurus 22,872]

Like was said above...racinfool40 does have some spare used sets of the ball bearing #1533 for sale.  The #1533 is the same for both axle sizes, the needle bearings and seals depend on if you have the 1" or the 1 1/8" axles.  These parts are available from Motion Industries and are not expensive.

 

1" axles...needle bearing # B-1616 torrington....seal is # 9815 skf

 

1 1/8" axles   needle bearing # B-1816 torrington...seal # 11050 skf

 

BTW....Welcome to Red Square

[Don1977 604]

It may be that just the needle bearing need to be replaced. They are the ones that cause the seals to leak.

[bob393 3]

I haven't pulled it apart because it's summer and I use the tractor to mow but the left side is pretty bad.

If you grab the wheel when it's off the ground you can feel it move in the bearing so I'm thinking its both the 

needle and the ball bearings. The right side might just need the needle bearing and the seal.

 

I know you guys are the experts and I'm just a noob, which I freely admit,  but with all the different sizes listed in a bearing

catalog I can't believe that it's not an off the shelf size for a large bearing company, Timpkin, Torington, SKF or someone.

It's just hard for me to get my head around the idea that they had custom size bearings made for there transmissions.

[stevasaurus 22,872]

Only the #1533 bearing is like that...you can get all the others.  Welcome to the bunch that can not understand how that happens...but it happens in this case.  What happens is that a certain company supplies a consumer with a product...that company stops supplying the consumer when the consumer stops using the product...and that company still has the patent....no one else can make it.   BTW...when TORO still had the #1533 in stock a couple of years ago...they were going for $86 apiece.  Talk about a corner on the market...OMG

 

The 5003 and the 5010 transmissions (RJs and Suburbans) have the same problem to a point.  Difference is that the company involved still makes the one bearing that you can not buy anywhere else.  It is the NICE 412-35 bearing...you can only get it from one supplier...not from Motion Industries, NAPA ETC.  You have to buy this bearing in lots of 10.

 

Think of it like they made these garden tractors (and they were really the first garden tractors) before everyone thought there should be a USB port that works on everything.

Edited May 9, 2013 by stevasaurus

[bob393 3]

OMG That's just plain NUTS! Thank you.

 

In your opinion:

 

I have the importunity to purchase the entire transmission for $150, 8 speed uni-drive.

I haven't looked at it so I have no idea what condition it's in but if it's in

good shape does that sound like a deal?

[stevasaurus 22,872]

In my opinion...you are better off going into your existing trans.  We have plenty of threads with videos of how to do this...it really is not that complicated...and I and many others will be here to help...promise.  Figure about a week down time...tear it apart...find what you need...order parts...put it to sleep. I know...I make it sound too easy.    Seriously, you could put that much in your trans...maybe not that much...and know what you got.  Or you could spend $150 and end up doing the same thing...$150 would be a good price if you knew that it was in excellent shape and trusted the person that told you.  You can pick up a trans for like what you are talking for about $50 to $75.  I would not spend more then that with out doing a great diagnostic.

 

Here to help...keep asking questions.

[Irv 115]

I have a couple of the 1533 bearings. If and when you tear the tranny apart and find that you need 1 or 2, pm me.

[bob393 3]

In my opinion...you are better off going into your existing trans.  We have plenty of threads with videos of how to do this...it really is not that complicated...and I and many others will be here to help...promise.  Figure about a week down time...tear it apart...find what you need...order parts...put it to sleep. I know...I make it sound too easy.    Seriously, you could put that much in your trans...maybe not that much...and know what you got.  Or you could spend $150 and end up doing the same thing...$150 would be a good price if you knew that it was in excellent shape and trusted the person that told you.  You can pick up a trans for like what you are talking for about $50 to $75.  I would not spend more then that with out doing a great diagnostic.

 

Here to help...keep asking questions.

 

Thank you, I will

I have a couple of the 1533 bearings. If and when you tear the tranny apart and find that you need 1 or 2, pm me.

I will contact you when I get into it. Thanks

[Fordiesel69 263]

Well after reading this thread, I am bummed.

 

Other than keeping water out, and keeping the fluid clean, is there any other way to keep these from going bad?

 

I have a whole lot of these 8 speeds for the durability, now I read this.................

[pfrederi 17,887]

I have (or had) 11 manual trans WHs.  Only one has required a 1533 replacement.  That was due to failure of the axle outer needle bearing.  The PO ignored the rear wheel wobble for too long the bearing fell apart and the needles did in the 1533 (and axle shaft and some other pieces....

 

Even trannys with some water /rust damage the 1533 bearings were usable.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about this.

[racinfool40 202]

I agree with pfrederi, on the 1533 bearings, I have been in and rebuilt close to 50 of these transmissions be mechanical and hydro's and only have come across one with Bad 1533 bearings and it was because of owner neglect..I rebuilt a 701 trans for a member here and the 1533 bearings were the only thing good in the whole trans....a good cleaning and packed with grease I reused them in his rebuilt one...So unless it has been neglected I wouldn't worry!

[stevasaurus 22,872]

I'm going to echo what Paul said.  I have been into many of these trannys and only one had a bad # 1533 bearing.  Some of these trannys have not been opened in over 50 years also.  Now needle bearings and seals are a different story, but replacements are readily available and not expensive.

[Lane Ranger 10,992]

I have also only seen one real bad 1533 bearing in a Wheel Horse transmssion case.  If you think about it -a lot of 50 year old tractors are still running fine on original transmssions with motors that have had to be redone, replaced, etc .   The Wheel Horse Uni-drive transmssion is a strong piece of the Wheel Horse.  Now that being said a lot of folks let go on the maintenance, care and protection of the transmssion to their detriment.   Water is bad and lots of other things can happen to the transmssion in the day in and day out use of the tractor.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Lane Ranger

[bob393 3]

I have (or had) 11 manual trans WHs.  Only one has required a 1533 replacement.  That was due to failure of the axle outer needle bearing.  The PO ignored the rear wheel wobble for too long the bearing fell apart and the needles did in the 1533 (and axle shaft and some other pieces....

 

Even trannys with some water /rust damage the 1533 bearings were usable.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about this.

 

It's good to hear that the uni is a good transmission.

I too am subject to the PO neglect and I suspect I will find that the needles have eaten up the 1533 also.

[bob393 3]

I hate to ask this but I need to be sure.

 

The half inch of axle between the hub and the axle housing, I measure it at one and one eighth inch.

Is that the diameter of the axle?

I'm sure it is but I want to check before I start ordering the parts.

[pfrederi 17,887]

yes

[bob393 3]

Thanks,

Parts on order, well the seals and rollers anyway.

From what I read I'm hoping the 1533'3 are OK.

[stevasaurus 22,872]

Personally, I would not order parts until I knew what I needed...can usually get the parts in one or two days.  Some of them can be expensive and if you do not need them it will cost you to put them back on the shelf.  Just saying.

[bob393 3]

I can't disagree Steve but I'm not doing a complete rebuild like you did, well unless I find more wrong than I expect.

I just ordered the axle rollers, one side I defiantly need, and the axle seals which one side I also defiantly need.

I'm holding off on the 1533 until I see them and keeping my fingers crossed that there OK.

Right now I'm more fearful that the axle shaft is damaged from running on the old hardened needle bearing race,

[pfrederi 17,887]

I can't disagree Steve but I'm not doing a complete rebuild like you did, well unless I find more wrong than I expect.

I just ordered the axle rollers, one side I defiantly need, and the axle seals which one side I also defiantly need.

I'm holding off on the 1533 until I see them and keeping my fingers crossed that there OK.

Right now I'm more fearful that the axle shaft is damaged from running on the old hardened needle bearing race,

 

 

When needle bearings fail and no one notices...

 

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

I would think that with carnage like that, someone would have to be quite deaf to NOT notice the grinding noises it must have been making!

 

 

 

  Cool old scale you've got!  A few like that in my collection too.

[bob393 3]

 

I can't disagree Steve but I'm not doing a complete rebuild like you did, well unless I find more wrong than I expect.

I just ordered the axle rollers, one side I defiantly need, and the axle seals which one side I also defiantly need.

I'm holding off on the 1533 until I see them and keeping my fingers crossed that there OK.

Right now I'm more fearful that the axle shaft is damaged from running on the old hardened needle bearing race,

 

 

When needle bearings fail and no one notices...

 

 

And that would be exactly what I'm afraid of.

That's even worse than I thought it could get. I was thinking that there could be groves where it ran

on the harden shell from the needle  bearing. I wasn't even thinking the needles would cause a real problem.

 

 

I would think that with carnage like that, someone would have to be quite deaf to NOT notice the grinding noises it must have been making!

 

 

 

  Cool old scale you've got!  A few like that in my collection too.

 

I would agree except at least in my case I rarely ride the tractor without the mower running

and hearing protection in. I could easily miss it.

 

And yes that is a cool scale. I too have one I actually use kind of regularly.