belt drive toughness

[GuffdaStuff 4]

hey all so ive been sitting here pondering.....im about to start to working my c160 as soon as mother nature decides to throw some good weather to northwest ohio yee haww!     anyways....about the belt drive....why did wheel horse do it?   why not shaft?  isnt shaft bulletproof?  i mean the shaft will never slip...the engine will die or the tires will break traction first before that shaft drive will puke id think.   i plan on putting a total of 160lbs on the rear end plus my 150 pound ass.  when will i start seeing belt drive issues?   what can i do to make it less prone to slippage?   i mean obviously wheel horse engineers had a good thing going because they kept the belt drive for decades!   im comparing to it say a cub cadet which IS shaft drive.    any horror stories are welcome haha im just wanting to know just how darn reliable these things are and when im gonna start to see problems with it (if i ever will)  thanks guys

[joel_400 59]

If everything is right you will run out of traction long before the belt slips...or if you pile weight on it kill the engine before you slip the belt.

[Shynon 7,475]

 I used to run a 14hp Wheel Horse pulling tractor and always used a Wheel Horse belt. I could pull the front end off the ground and hold it up all the way down the track. No belt slippage.

[GuffdaStuff 4]

so are ya saying that a wheel horse belt is something i should look into?  are they stickier or something?  or just better quality than something i would get at tractor supply or whatever?

[Shynon 7,475]

I worked part time at a Wheel Horse dealer 20 years ago. He said only a Wheel Horse belt and nothing else. That's all I will use if it is available.

 

                Tom

[546cowboy 301]

A cheap belt is just ' a cheap belt'. There is a reason an OEM belt is $25 to$50 or more and that is quality construction. If you replace it with a $12 automotive belt you deserve the aggravation you get when it lets you down. Saving a few dollars on a belt is not worth it. That goes triple for these newer tractors that can take hours to replace.

[tractorbeast 27]

I would say yes the belts are good- they fit good- thats seems to be the issue. The belts are made to be a size that cant be bought anywhere but a dealer. Thats one way they make their money. I guess you cant blame the company, everyone does it. But the OEM belts fit better than any after market I have found, IMHO.

[tiggercl 28]

Shafts are generally bullet proof... it's all the rest of the bits like the gears, couplings etc. that are not.

 

Belts provide a safety margin in case something 'locks up' during operation... 

 

Wheel Horse belts are a great investment.

[Deere Hunter 54]

The factory belt should be all you need. When I was pulling my stocker WH I would use #7473 a whole season, then swap it out. Never had any issues pulling 2500-6000 lbs sleds. But if you ever find you need more than a stock belt, look into a Gates BX series belt. Ran that style on my open RPM belt drive puller with no belt problems. Make sure you have a good return spring, may need to replace to a new one if the old one is stretched or not the correct one.

[leeave96 488]

Belt drive is great.  I've got several IH Cub Cadet and the drive shaft is interesting, but IMHO, in no way is an advantage.  Clutches slip, they have this big honkin' tranny and a small roll pin coupling the drive shaft to it - BUT, from where I set, all of these old iron tractors are good!

 

I can't say I've ever had a belt slip or at least noticed it.

 

My question is - what are you doing that requires 160 lbs?

 

Good luck,

Bill

 

[pacer 3,175]

And then there is the "D" series -- My D18 has hydraulics driving all kinds of stuff, but coming off the PTO (shaft driven) there is a 105" belt driving the belly mower and then a 100" driving the 3 blades and I rarely have to change belts - usually when I've picked up a stick and gets tangled in the belt. I get all my belts at my local bearing supply which carries a whopping supply of belts.

[MalMac 1,332]

Years ago when are family was a Wheel Horse dealer. We would get people in all the time asking the same question "Why use a belt?" My Granddad would take a customer out and demonstrate. He would chain a tractor to a tree then get on and demonstrate. The tractor would loose traction and try to bury itself in the ground or it would stand right up on it's A&& just like a big farm tractor would. Then he would add weight. The tractor would do the same thing. Then he would tell the customer that if you slipped the belt it is because the belts or pulleys are wore or "You Are Doing Something That you should Not Be Doing and your going to Break Something besides a Belt"

 

Small side note to this story. One day while demonstrating Cecil Pond pulled in with one of the district sale man. I can still remember them laughing their A&& off. The sale man took pictures for Cecil to take back with him. I always wondered where the Pictures ended up.

[Tankman 3,520]

I'm on my sixth deck refurb (today, have done quite a few in the past).

For the spindle drive belt and mule drive, I've been scootin' up to Tractor Supply and purchasing their Huskee Kevlar® belts. These seem to be holding up very well, have never broken one and the price and availability is excellent. Most sizes are always stock.

For tractor drive belts I've only used WH OEM belts. At Camp Lejeune web belts and cartridge belts with suspender straps, hey! all that gear gets heavy!

Any thoughts 'bout the Kevlar® belts vs. standard?

I do remember forty years ago, I purchased green belts (Gates?) because they're 'posed to be free of damage in oil environments. True? :smile:

[MalMac 1,332]

I agree all that field gear will weigh you down. Hated repelling out of Huey with all that on. Kinda made that ground seem alittle harder.

[Forest Road 594]

If it'll make you feel better I'm 260lbs with 180lbs hanging off the rear of my 314h. And I still would like more weight when I'm using the two stage blower, and believe that's another 300 - 350lbs. I like my belts!

[squonk 42,540]

Those Kevlar belts are tough. Same as Napa green belts which I sold for 10 years. I sold thousands of belts and had 2 premature failures both caused by bad deck bearings.

[can whlvr 993]

ive told this story before but ill tell it again,years ago i left the 308 outside in winter,had the chains on and dozer blade,we got a warm spell and the rear tires froze in the ground pretty good,well i looked at it and thought to my self,she will spin the belt befors anything will break or it will pull out of the ice,BAD choice,she tore up the rear diff bad,took out 3 pinion gears and one axle gear,this was way before i had acess to internet or used parts,it cost me something like 500 bucks,so this tells you how strong the belt drive is

[GuffdaStuff 4]

well that makes me feel better thats for sure.  i dont think im gonna have to worry about anything just gonna go to my local dealer and get me a good drive belt

[Ken B 3,165]

Belt drive is great.  I've got several IH Cub Cadet and the drive shaft is interesting, but IMHO, in no way is an advantage.  Clutches slip, they have this big honkin' tranny and a small roll pin coupling the drive shaft to it - BUT, from where I set, all of these old iron tractors are good!

 

I can't say I've ever had a belt slip or at least noticed it.

 

My question is - what are you doing that requires 160 lbs?

 

Good luck,

Bill

You hit the nail on the head! Has anyone ever had that roll pin break on their Cub Cadet when out in the freezing cold pushing snow? I have and it ain't no picnic replacing that roll pin! As the old saying goes, something is only as strong as its weakest link and in this case its a 50 cent roll pin and plenty of aggravation.

[6wheeler 662]

Those Kevlar belts are tough. Same as Napa green belts which I sold for 10 years. I sold thousands of belts and had 2 premature failures both caused by bad deck bearings.

Mike, I use the NAPA green belts now. They are a good fit and they haven't slipped yet. All of my tractors have them on the deck drive and trans drive with no problems. I have also tried Carquests "green" line from Gates. Seems like they' re either a bit too long or short. I couldn't ever get a good fit from them. The Napa belts are only about 15% cheaper than Toro belts but they are in town and available plus, they work well. As was stated before by MalMac, If you use it for what it is intended for? There will be no trouble. Now if I hook one of our 30' field cultivators behind my 520? I may have to put 5000# pounds of weight on the 520 and add another 200hp to the engine. Then, the belt might slip    

[Wheel-N-It 2,971]

Belt drive is great.  I've got several IH Cub Cadet and the drive shaft is interesting, but IMHO, in no way is an advantage.  Clutches slip, they have this big honkin' tranny and a small roll pin coupling the drive shaft to it - BUT, from where I set, all of these old iron tractors are good!

 

I can't say I've ever had a belt slip or at least noticed it.

 

My question is - what are you doing that requires 160 lbs?

 

Good luck,

Bill

You hit the nail on the head! Has anyone ever had that roll pin break on their Cub Cadet when out in the freezing cold pushing snow? I have and it ain't no picnic replacing that roll pin! As the old saying goes, something is only as strong as its weakest link and in this case its a 50 cent roll pin and plenty of aggravation.

 I have not had a roll pin break Ken, but thank you and Bill for bringing this to my attention. Now I know its a possibility, and will keep that in mind when pushing dirt and rocks and other heavy stuff. We dont get enough snow here to worry about breaking a roll pin LOL.

[varosd 1,185]

My dad's 1977 B-80: original drive belt still going strong (I do have a OEM belt ready as backup)

My 1988 520-H just had to replace the original belt with OEM belt.

buy OEM

[C-85 726]

I have some comments on why W/H used a belt drive, vs.shaft drive. 

 

As a W/H dealer we were also asked this question a lot about the drive belt.  We were an Ariens dealer and their garden tractor was shaft drive, so this question came up a lot.  We sold mostly C series type W/H tractors and a few D series.  Generally our customers that wanted shaft drive bought the Ariens tractors.

 

During my sales training from W/H when I was a dealer they advised 2 things to answer this question -

 

 

1. They told us that anytime you change the direction of power you lose power.  The tractors that had shaft drives had to change the direction of their power in the transmission to make it spin the wheels.  So W/H supported the concept of having a transverse mounted engine where the engine spun the same motion as the wheels, like most front wheel drive cars.  I'm not an engineer, but this made sense.  If this was true, rear wheel drive cars must lose some power in their differentials, converting the power from the engine to the wheels for example.  I have a C-85 and this thing seems to have enough power that I believe could tow a tank, possibly because of this belt design.

 

2. The other thing that we were told was that they said that there was a 6 to 1 ratio between the engine and transmission.  They told us that most of the torque load was taken up in the transmission, so according to them there should never be much stress on the drive belt.

 

I wonder if any other former dealers had this training or if other members agree with this?  Was this the facts or just a sales pitch?

 

I've got 2 black hoods and I've never replaced the drive belt, and I've worked both of them to the max!  I like this belt system and am glad to have it on my rigs!

[squonk 42,540]

Those Kevlar belts are tough. Same as Napa green belts which I sold for 10 years. I sold thousands of belts and had 2 premature failures both caused by bad deck bearings.

Mike, I use the NAPA green belts now. They are a good fit and they haven't slipped yet. All of my tractors have them on the deck drive and trans drive with no problems. I have also tried Carquests "green" line from Gates. Seems like they' re either a bit too long or short. I couldn't ever get a good fit from them. The Napa belts are only about 15% cheaper than Toro belts but they are in town and available plus, they work well. As was stated before by MalMac, If you use it for what it is intended for? There will be no trouble. Now if I hook one of our 30' field cultivators behind my 520? I may have to put 5000# pounds of weight on the 520 and add another 200hp to the engine. Then, the belt might slip    

That's odd about the CC green belts. Napa belts are made by Gates also and should be identical.

[Trouty56 567]

1. They told us that anytime you change the direction of power you lose power.  The tractors that had shaft drives had to change the direction of their power in the transmission to make it spin the wheels.  So W/H supported the concept of having a transverse mounted engine where the engine spun the same motion as the wheels, like most front wheel drive cars.  I'm not an engineer, but this made sense.  If this was true, rear wheel drive cars must lose some power in their differentials, converting the power from the engine to the wheels for example.  I have a C-85 and this thing seems to have enough power that I believe could tow a tank, possibly because of this belt design.

 

2. The other thing that we were told was that they said that there was a 6 to 1 ratio between the engine and transmission.  They told us that most of the torque load was taken up in the transmission, so according to them there should never be much stress on the drive belt.

 

Point #1.  True - how much loss??  Don't know but true.

Point #2.  6 to 1 ratio??  Not sure on that (I don't know the pulley sizes off the top of my head)....but I do know the ratio is reduced....

 

Probably way more stress on attachment belts than the drive belt as many pulleys that are used on them......