Work Horse 800 sloppy trans

[chrisd200(inactive) 55]

Hey everyone, just acquired a wheel horse work horse 800 with the 4 speed trans (3 forward, 1 reverse). The tractor doesn't run yet but I have noticed that if I put it into any gear and then try to push it, the tractor will role a good foot or more before the trans catches and stops the tractor. This seemed a little excessive to me. Any thoughts????

[stevasaurus 22,683]

It is not your transmission...that is not how they are built.  I think with it in gear and the clutch out, you are turning the engine over until you hit the compression stroke, when you push the tractor.  That would be about a foot.  If you take the drive belt off, you can push that horse around all day in gear.  We used to push old cars with manual transmissions that would not start, and pop the clutch to get the trans to turn over the engine and start the vehicle.

[chrisd200(inactive) 55]

Thanks for the info. Gonna check to see if the engine is turning causing the slack.

[stevasaurus 22,683]

BTW...Welcome to Red Square.

[squonk 41,010]

It is not your transmission...that is not how they are built.  I think with it in gear and the clutch out, you are turning the engine over until you hit the compression stroke, when you push the tractor.  That would be about a foot.  If you take the drive belt off, you can push that horse around all day in gear.  We used to push old cars with manual transmissions that would not start, and pop the clutch to get the trans to turn over the engine and start the vehicle.

I had a 61 Ford Falcon with the 170 "Stump Puller" 6 banger. The rings were shot and you could push the car by hand in gear with the clutch out!

[chrisd200(inactive) 55]

BTW...Welcome to Red Square.

Thank you!!!

[JimmyJam 542]

I don't the tempature there but if it's below freeze and the transmission has some water in it than it will be hard to move even in neutral!!!!

[chrisd200(inactive) 55]

Hasn't been below freezing for a few days here and the oil does not appear to be contaminated with water. I'm still not sure about this thing. With the clutch/brake pedal out and the trans in any gear, the tractor rolls over a foot (either direction) and the input shaft (pulley) never attempts to turn. So I know it has nothing to do with the engine allowing it to move. On the other hand, I removed the drive belt and turned the pulley by hand. In any gear you have to turn the pulley several revolutions before the wheels start to move, kind of like its having to take up slack. Is this normal for the 4 speed trans? My C120 8 speed responds a WHOLE lot faster (almost instantly) to any input shaft movement. Checked it just for comparison.  Just trying to figure out what to do with this tractor. It needs some engine work as well, needs to be painted, needs a seat and the mower deck is rough. If the trans is almost worn out or in need of an expensive repair, then I may want to rethink this whole thing. Thanks for all of your help!!!!!

[stevasaurus 22,683]

Chris, I can't think of anything inside that transmission that would do what you have going on.  Check both hubs and wood ruff keys.  Check the play in both axles...(up, down, in and out and see how they are when you turn them).  Looking to see if the pinions and axle gears are OK here.  Up and down should be almost nothing...in and out should be around 1/8" or a little more....in neutral turning one axle one way, the other should go in the opposite direction...should feel somewhat smooth...try it from both sides.  Check the wood ruff key on the input shaft also.

 

How do you feel about splitting the trans?  Plenty of help and pictures and videos here to walk you through it.  Here is a link to the manual:: You should have a 5080 transmission and it is the section IV trans...starts on page 37.  If you are going to restore this horse, you may want to split the trans anyway, just to make sure it is OK.  Let us know what you find.

 

http://www.mywheelhorse.com/graphics/file/Transmissions/492-4004.pdf

Edited March 5, 2013 by stevasaurus

[chrisd200(inactive) 55]

Chris, I can't think of anything inside that transmission that would do what you have going on.  Check both hubs and wood ruff keys.  Check the play in both axles...(up, down, in and out and see how they are when you turn them).  Looking to see if the pinions and axle gears are OK here.  Up and down should be almost nothing...in and out should be around 1/8" or a little more....in neutral turning one axle one way, the other should go in the opposite direction...should feel somewhat smooth...try it from both sides.  Check the wood ruff key on the input shaft also.

 

How do you feel about splitting the trans?  Plenty of help and pictures and videos here to walk you through it.  Here is a link to the manual:: You should have a 5080 transmission and it is the section IV trans...starts on page 37.  If you are going to restore this horse, you may want to split the trans anyway, just to make sure it is OK.  Let us know what you find.

 

http://www.mywheelhorse.com/graphics/file/Transmissions/492-4004.pdf

Hey, thanks a ton!!!!! I will check everything that you mentioned. I have gone into the rear end of my D200 before (with some help) but that was a long time ago. Maybe its time to freshen up my skills huh? But I will check everything that you mentioned first. Will prob. be a few days before I can spend anymore time on it.

[chrisd200(inactive) 55]

Chris, I can't think of anything inside that transmission that would do what you have going on.  Check both hubs and wood ruff keys.  Check the play in both axles...(up, down, in and out and see how they are when you turn them).  Looking to see if the pinions and axle gears are OK here.  Up and down should be almost nothing...in and out should be around 1/8" or a little more....in neutral turning one axle one way, the other should go in the opposite direction...should feel somewhat smooth...try it from both sides.  Check the wood ruff key on the input shaft also.

 

How do you feel about splitting the trans?  Plenty of help and pictures and videos here to walk you through it.  Here is a link to the manual:: You should have a 5080 transmission and it is the section IV trans...starts on page 37.  If you are going to restore this horse, you may want to split the trans anyway, just to make sure it is OK.  Let us know what you find.

 

http://www.mywheelhorse.com/graphics/file/Transmissions/492-4004.pdf

Hey, thanks a ton!!!!! I will check everything that you mentioned. I have gone into the rear end of my D200 before (with some help) but that was a long time ago. Maybe its time to freshen up my skills huh? But I will check everything that you mentioned first. Will prob. be a few days before I can spend anymore time on it.

Hey Steve, One more question. As this is a little older trans than I am used to dealing with..... can you tell me if this is a good transmission? The guy that had it before me was the original owner and he did a lot of plowing and mowing with it. I've heard that some transmissions were better than others so I was curious on your expert opinion here. Thanks again

[stevasaurus 22,683]

The uni-drive is one of the best transmissions.  The one difference with yours between the 3 speed uni-drive (Section II in the manual), is that the brake shaft comes through the trans on the cluster gear shaft instead of the 11/44 tooth gear shaft.  I would not call myself an expert by any means, but I am working toward that end.   I have done a couple of videos putting transmissions back together, and one of them is very much like yours.  How did the transmission feel when you were turning the input shaft by hand??  Any noises, binding, hard shifting??  Check out this video and see if anything stands out that may trigger what you may have going.  Just click on the pictures.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2013 by stevasaurus

[chrisd200(inactive) 55]

Steve, in case no one has told you lately, U R the MAN!!! Thanks so much for the vids. They are going to be a great help!! To answer your question, everything feels smooth and quiet. Nothing really standing out at this point other than the slow response of the wheels when turning the input shaft. Still got  a few more things to check but the weather is rainy this afternoon so it may be a day or two before I get back to it. Suppose to have to go do a training session on a Woods rotary cutter late tomorrow so I know I will not get a chance to check it then. Thanks again Steve!

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

Chris, take a few minutes to check for wallowed hubs on the wheels.

 

Here is am example of a hub that would also allow the tractor to move about a foot before engaging the transmission. If you take the circumference of an average 23 inch tire, a 45 to 60 degree play in the hub would allow the tire / hub to move about a foot prior to the woodruff key engaging with the non-worn section of the hub.

 

 

 

 

A quick check for this possibility is to push the tractor forward until you feel the hubs / trans "engage".

At this point strike a line across the axle onto the hub as seen below

 

 

 

 

Pull the tractor in the opposite direction until the hub / trans "engages" again.

 

If the line you drew looks like this

 

 

 

 

Then your hub may be wallowed. Check for associated damage to the woodruff key. woodruff key slot on the axle.

 

 

A good woodruff slot will look like this

 

 

 

 

A woodruff slot exposed to the back and forth slamming of a wallowed hub will open up like this one

 

 

 

 

Once you develop slop in the axle and the hub, it is easy to imagine the tractor moving a bit before the hub / trans "engage" with one another.

 

Good luck on the project.

[chrisd200(inactive) 55]

Chris, take a few minutes to check for wallowed hubs on the wheels.

 

Here is am example of a hub that would also allow the tractor to move about a foot before engaging the transmission. If you take the circumference of an average 23 inch tire, a 45 to 60 degree play in the hub would allow the tire / hub to move about a foot prior to the woodruff key engaging with the non-worn section of the hub.

 

 

 

 

A quick check for this possibility is to push the tractor forward until you feel the hubs / trans "engage".

At this point strike a line across the axle onto the hub as seen below

 

 

 

 

Pull the tractor in the opposite direction until the hub / trans "engages" again.

 

If the line you drew looks like this

 

 

 

 

Then your hub may be wallowed. Check for associated damage to the woodruff key. woodruff key slot on the axle.

 

 

A good woodruff slot will look like this

 

 

 

 

A woodruff slot exposed to the back and forth slamming of a wallowed hub will open up like this one

 

 

 

 

Once you develop slop in the axle and the hub, it is easy to imagine the tractor moving a bit before the hub / trans "engage" with one another.

 

Good luck on the project.

Thank You VERY VERY much!!! Gonna check the hubs first chance I get. I have never seen a hub wear like the one in the first picture, thats crazy.  I'll let you know what I find. Thanks again, very good info.

[chrisd200(inactive) 55]

Chris, take a few minutes to check for wallowed hubs on the wheels.

 

Here is am example of a hub that would also allow the tractor to move about a foot before engaging the transmission. If you take the circumference of an average 23 inch tire, a 45 to 60 degree play in the hub would allow the tire / hub to move about a foot prior to the woodruff key engaging with the non-worn section of the hub.

 

 

 

 

A quick check for this possibility is to push the tractor forward until you feel the hubs / trans "engage".

At this point strike a line across the axle onto the hub as seen below

 

 

 

 

Pull the tractor in the opposite direction until the hub / trans "engages" again.

 

If the line you drew looks like this

 

 

 

 

Then your hub may be wallowed. Check for associated damage to the woodruff key. woodruff key slot on the axle.

 

 

A good woodruff slot will look like this

 

 

 

 

A woodruff slot exposed to the back and forth slamming of a wallowed hub will open up like this one

 

 

 

 

Once you develop slop in the axle and the hub, it is easy to imagine the tractor moving a bit before the hub / trans "engage" with one another.

 

Good luck on the project.

Thank You VERY VERY much!!! Gonna check the hubs first chance I get. I have never seen a hub wear like the one in the first picture, thats crazy.  I'll let you know what I find. Thanks again, very good info.

MYSTERY SOLVED!!!!!!!   It is definitely the hubs, tons of axle movement mainly on the rt wheel. When I take it apart i expect it to look as bad (or worse) as the one in the above pic. Thanks to all of you for your time, the vids and the pics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great bunch of people here!!!!!