Raider 10 reverse and 1st not working

[raider10-8 9]

hey guys im new to this forum and i just got a raider 10. i got it with 1st gear not working i was taking it for a ride for the 2nd time and all of a sudden reverse stopped working. it was also making a noise so i drained the trans. oil and not metal chunks. but the color was like a carmel. i put new oil in it and still made the noise and reverse didnt work nor first. any help??

[sorekiwi 761]

Welcome to Red Square.

Does your gear lever move into the 1st and Reverse positions? Does it feel normal in those positions?

The caramel colored oil is water in the transmission, usually it gets in through a bad shifter boot. You can search on here for info on flushing the trans. But wait till after your problem has been solved, in case you end up having to split the transmission.

[raider10-8 9]

no thats the thing. the shift lever dose not go into those gears at all. if i try any harderto put it in first i think im gonna break the shift lever?!?!?!

[rmaynard 15,610]

:WRS: What year is your Raider 10? You should be able to remove the shifter by backing out the dog-point set screw that holds it in place. If that set screw has come loose, or broken you will have shifting problems as well. If you can get the shifter out, take a look down the hole and in the neutral position you should see this.

The knob on the end of the shifter moves the shift forks side to side. They should be lined up as shown, and you should be able to manually move them side to side with a screw driver.

The pair at the top (nearest the set screw hole) are reverse and 1st.

[sorekiwi 761]

Also tell us about this noise. Is it there all the time? Even with the clutch pushed in? Still there when it is driving in 2nd or 3rd? What sort of noise, a whine? or clicking?

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,412]

Is the tractor you bought the one in your avatar? Looks like it was a puller ......it might have had a tough life. Some Raiders came with a 10 pinion/posi rear transaxle which was a fine tranny as long as you didnt use it in pulling competetions. Plenty tough enough for yard chores of course, but in pulling competitions it would break.

Mike.............

[raider10-8 9]

the noise only was heard in 2nd and reverse. it is only there when the wheels are spinning. it is a clicking noise but it is fast clicking. and im going to take a look at taking the shifter lever out sometime today and tell you what i see. ohh and for the person who asked me about my picture..... i do not own that tractor i got it from google.

[raider10-8 9]

yaa so i took the shifter lever out and i saw what you showed me. but i could not get it into reverse or first with a screw driver. so basically do i need a new trans. or can rebuilding it or replacing those gears be possible??

[stevasaurus 22,872]

Looks like you are going into the trans. I do not like to guess anymore (been wrong too many times )..so one more guess will not hurt. The clicking noise suggests a bad bearing, the fast clicking suggests either the input shaft bearing, or the cluster gear shaft bearing. If some of the bearings dropped out of the race, the shaft could drop a little also, causing a misalignment of the gears.

Do not force anything or run again at this point...if ball bearings are loose in the trans, they could wedge in the gears. I would say that the trans is very fixable. Used gears (if needed) are available from some of the members. You can buy new bearings and seals and the gasket. Do you need help and/or instruction in tearing it down? It is not a hard job and only need a few regular tools. We have some videos and plenty of pictures on this site to help...let us know we can walk you through it. :)

[raider10-8 9]

hey thanks a lot. umm i have a lot of tools but when it comes to trans. i kinda dont like to take them apart cuz of all of the gears and i think i gonna f*&% something up. but if u guys have vids and you say its easy im gonna have my bro help me cuz hes a diesel mech. so what should i start out doing.???

[stevasaurus 22,872]

You need to drain the trans, pull off the wheels, hubs, guards, linkage, rear hitch pin, brake drum and lining, input pulley, fender pan and seat...ie...all that is attacked to the trans. The trans is held to the frame with 4 bolts. If the hubs and the hitch are not stuck, this is an easy job. Once you get the trans out...notice there is a shallow and a deeper side...you want the trans with the shallow side down. Mount in a vice or some kind of box that allows the axle shaft to sit in so the trans sits flat. Unbolt the bolts holding the trans halves together and separate. I run a razor knife around the seam and then tap with a sharp chisel to break apart. Do you have an 8 or 4 speed transmission?

Here is a link to the manual...you are section III if you have the 4 speed...section V if have the hi/lo 8 speed.

http://www.mywheelhorse.com/graphics/file/Transmissions/492-4004.pdf

BTW...Welcome to Red Square. :)

Edited February 10, 2013 by stevasaurus

[stevasaurus 22,872]

Check out this link...picks and videos...not your trans, but it looks and works and goes together the same way.

We have some other links in the links section that will be helpful also. :)

[raider10-8 9]

so me and my brother got the trans out and on the bench. so were going to make a jig to hold it because our vice isnt big enough. and were going to split the case and take some pics for you guys and find out whats rong.

[rmaynard 15,610]

Easiest way I found to hold it is in a Workmate. You want to lay it on it's shallow side to disassemble it. Another way is to stack two rear tires & wheels and let the axle housing go down into the center hole of the wheel.

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

I have found using a three point homemade stand works well. Simple supplies laying around the house will yield a very stable and secure platform to work from.

No slipping off a Jenga like stack of wood blocks or tires or thru workmate clamps and no damage to paint or castings on the transmission. It projects a level of professionalism and "give a shoot" that inspires confidence in the person you are doing the rebuild for.

The three point suspension will allow you to level the casting making all shafts sit square in their bores and bearing. This avoids undo stress on the needle bearings by "wagging" shafts into the needle bearings. All components true allows to you test the final assembly by rotating the input shaft by hand without splayed / tilted shafts causing the bearing stacks to lock up from misalignment.

As you can see in the third image, the transaxle isn't all that complicated. In this image, the axles and pinion assy are obviously not present. This particular transaxle was disassembled after sitting for 2+ years. All shifter functions were jammed or VERY stiff. A good cleaning of the shifter assemblies resolved all the issues. The entire trans cleaned up quite nicely with a minimum of effort.

Go for it. There are plenty of folks here willing to help those who go outside their "comfort zone".

In your case with a "clicking noise", when you first open the case. probe around with a magnetic retriever to see what (if anything) pops out from between or underneath the gears. From there, take pictures with a digital camera as you disassemble the individual pieces.

Just an afterthought - remember the shifter rod develops a very large mechanical advantage thru a long shifter handle pivoted on a dog point setscrew in the transmission case. The shift forks will not change positions just by simply pushing with a screwdriver. You will need to lever the screwdriver off the case near the shift forks and lightly bump the screwdriver handle with a dead blow hammer. To lower the shift fork once moved upward, a slight tap from the same deadblow hammer will start the shifter fork on its movement to the next detent. Be aware the gears are not "synchronized" and will not automatically align with each other. If the shift fork seems stubborn, check the alignment of the gears you expect to mesh together when you shift. A slight shuffle of the gear teeth will allow the two gears to align and engage.

Developing the experience to determine right "feel" of the shifter comes with time. The HI LO speed assy should be able to be switched by inserting a 3 or 4 inch long allen wrench into the shaft on top of the trans case. Any force considerably LESS or GREATER could indicate breakage or need for a cleaning.

[Anglo Traction 761]

Nice set up SOI. However , this idea may be of assistance if your pushed for time to fabricate a stand of some kind.

hope this link works

[raider10-8 9]

thanks guys...im probably going to use the two tires method.

[raider10-8 9]

ohh and by the way does any one know where i can get a new gear shift lever and lever boot?!?!??

[sorekiwi 761]

The boot is definately available from your Toro dealer.

You could try them for a shift lever if you want a new one, or try" Kelly" for a used one. Whats wrong with your old one?

[raider10-8 9]

umm its shot.... youll see in the pics when i post them

[can whlvr 993]

so if the shifter is bad we need to seeit,its possible that the end fell in side,it would be nice to have a good shifter lever to try before tearing down,but you said it clicks,which as allready stated means tearing her apart,not a difficult job,she stays together good,just follow the great how to video here,it will help you greatly

[raider10-8 9]

yaa well when i meant shot i meant like its rotted but instead of buying a new one im just gonna ut some bondo on it and sand it down. cuz its still strong but dosent look that good.

[stevasaurus 22,872]

The bondo will work above the ball, but I would not use it below. You will not have much trouble finding a new/used one...show season starts in a couple of months. Let's find out all that is wrong first and go from there. Waiting for the pictures and what you find inside. Do you have the 4 or 8 speed transmission?? We need to know that when looking for parts...also 1" or 1 1/8" axles diameter?? Good to go after you answer those questions. Don't worry about weather or not you needed to go into this trans...you needed to. You have clicking and you had water in there for who knows how long...when we are done...you will have a new trans that will last another 50 years, and you will know that you can trust it, and how to take care of it. Plus you will have a record (pictures) of what you did. Thumbs up.

SOI...I don't know where you got that stand, but it is worthless. No way you can put the differential in there unless you have a hole drilled for the axle. As far as professional, a vise works great and a couple of wood shims on each side of the axle housing in the vise will protect any paint. I have yet to tear apart any transmission that looked like it was new. Just saying. The one thing you did say that was right..."there are plenty of folks here willing to help...". :)

Edited February 12, 2013 by stevasaurus

[rmaynard 15,610]

Steve. You still using the wine crate for your tranny holder?

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

SOI...I don't know where you got that stand, but it is worthless. No way you can put the differential in there unless you have a hole drilled for the axle. Just saying.

The one thing you did say that was right..."there are plenty of folks here willing to help...".

I guess I have to chalk that comment up to an easy mistake to make -

since I didn't hack it out with a chainsaw or gouge it out with a screwdriver

it may have been easy to miss.

Some may be wondering about the the holes in the base - these are not "mistakes". They are holes to for the indexing pins to allow the case halves to lie flat when pushing in the bearings / seals. My days of working on on a cold floor or laying on a stack of wood piled in the the mud are over. The time has arrived when I choose to pursue my hobbies in a more gentlemen-like manner, whenever possible.