1533 Bearings PACAMOR KUBAR BEARINGS... Lets get them back in production!!

[dw753 208]

I borrowed this information from Lane Ranger ..... Lane has started a mini campaign to get this company to start manufacturing the 1533 bearing again.....

This is the bearing company that has made the #1533 bearing for the Toro and Wheel Horse Companies. The #1533 (Toro and Wheel horse Part Number) bearing is no longer being made even though this part is integral to over 246 models of Wheel Horse garden tractors that are still operating -some over 50 years old or more!

Please LIKE this company on Facebook and encourage them to starting remaking the 1533 bearing for lots of potential customers!

Pacamor Kubar Bearings (PKB)

PACAMOR KUBAR BEARINGS (PKB) Miniature, Precision, and Instrument Ball Bearings are manufactured to the highest degree of quality and workmanship. PACAMOR KUBAR BEARINGS (PKB) manufactures for industries such as aerospace, aircraft instrument, medical and dental instruments, computers, flow meters,...

Here is there Contact us page Send them a mesage

http://www.pacamor.com/contact/index.php

If your on facebook like them here and comment on their wall .... I did lets get these babies produced again

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pacamor-Kubar-Bearings-PKB/163112190312

[stevasaurus 22,884]

The interest is definitely there, and I would buy some. Has either of you guys actually talked to the company to see what it would really take for them to get on board?? :)

[Lane Ranger 10,992]

Steve this is what PKB just posted this afternoon after my original comments and encouragement to :LIKE" PKB bearings!

Pacamor Kubar Bearings (PKB) also commented on their link.Pacamor Kubar Bearings (PKB) wrote: "Thank you for all the 1533 requests. I've sent an inquiry to our engineering team and will post the response. We LOVE that you are this passionate about PKB bearings!! )"Reply to this email to comment on this link.

[dw753 208]

Keep the requests going they have to know there is a real intrest

[stevasaurus 22,884]

Lane and Dw753, as you know the WH #1533 bearing is the one thing that keeps us from saving these transmissions for another 60+ years or more. Maybe, if we get a ton of responses in this thread, we can forward the link to them...or maybe forward some of the past links to them. Might be easier then doing a swamp them in e-mails. If you guys are communicating with the company, maybe we could do an official Red Square response...would have to talk to Karl about that...just some ideas. :)

Edited February 4, 2013 by stevasaurus

[Martin 2,133]

i would like these available too. went and liked lane's post on the facebook page. c'mon every one, there maybe a time in the future where you need one of these bearings, wouldnt it be good to be able to get them new?

i hope that if they are made available, they would be 'reasonably' priced......

[coldone 35]

One option might be to ask them to do a one time run of these bearings if they arent interested in making them a product again. You will have to find out how much it would cost and then REDSQUARE could be the sole distributor.

[Duff 206]

Maybe the machinists among us can speak to this - if they used to manufacture these bearings, would they still have the tooling tucked away somewhere? I would think the high cost of another bearing house doing a run would be having to design and build the tooling from scratch, but maybe - just maybe - PKB is already one leg up on this.....

Duff :thumbs:

Edited February 5, 2013 by Duff

[SousaKerry 502]

I checked with a couple of other manufacturers and if your numbers are not in the millions then forget it, unless you have a NASA sized budget. But I would think that Pakamore more then likely still has the tooling, although it may be owned by Toro, or at the very least they have signed an agreement with them that they will only produce the bearing for them. I have seen this before.

I wonder how receptive someone like Stens would be. They have no problems copying everybody elses stuff.

[MalMac 1,331]

If this bearing was just for Toro, more than likely they had a contract with them. I have run into this before. With that said I have come across suppliers that said Toro dropped the contract because of the Wheel Horse being discontinued. It let the supplier to be free to sell directly to the customer instead of through Toro. I think this would have to be found out first before bearings being made again.

The bearing company might forward the desire for the bearing again to Toro and Toro would have to make the decision. If this is the case I could see Toro if they gave permission on getting their cut of the pie. In short going to Toro and paying big or even bigger $$$.

[Don1977 604]

Toro changed from 1533 bearing to the 111199 bearing in 1986. All the later transmissions used the 111199 bearing. Not having one of these transmissions apart I would like to know the ID,OD, and thickness of the 111199 bearing. I guess it is metric.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,145]

[dclarke 4,034]

Most of us have needed these bearings at one time or another, It would sure be nice if they were made available.

[roscoemi 245]

As much as I hate to say this, somebody in China will make it if they don't already and not charge an arm and leg to do it.

[meadowfield 2,595]

This is the large bearing on the diff? I'm being a bit slow and not at a PC currently...

What are the dimensions? I've followed the thread but no pictures or dimensions.

[Lane Ranger 10,992]

OK guys. PKB posted back on the 1533 bearing. The Troy, New York plant does not have the machine capability to make the 1533 bearing. BUT, they asked for a drawing of the bearing.

This is the note I sent back:

Note to PBK yesterday. They asked me for a drawing. I do not have one. This is what I sent. The standard 1533 bearing dim. are 1 1/2" ID x 2 1/2" OD x 1/2" W. TORO is not longer making the bearing or having you folks make it for them.

I would like to share a drawing of the bearing but do not have one or the capability to make a engineering type drawing.

Anyone of the Red Square members who has one or the capability please send and I will get to the PKB folks. They do have other plants!

Thanks. PKB has been paying attention on the 1533 bearing posting and responsive.

[Save Old Iron 1,566]

Lane, a few detailed photographs should give them a fair understanding of the makeup of the bearing. It may also be prudent to set an expectation of what collector / enthusiasts might be willing to pay for such a bearing. Being "overly eager" for resurrection of a bearing to support a 40 year old hobby might result in a price tag not much lower than current Toro pricing.

Please no one take this the wrong way - but if we have to put our money where our mouth is, how many pieces could we guarantee this manufacturer on his first run? Do we have that many members each willing to put $200 - $300 on the table to get a one time lifetime supply. I might be more inclined to gather up $300 worth of transmissions and scavenge ALL the parts from each one for future use. In the process of gathering up 3 or 4 trany's, I'm sure I could score at least 2 or 3 good 1533's, shifter forks, shifter rods, reverse idlers and a spare case half or two for the same $$.

[leeave96 487]

This is the large bearing on the diff? I'm being a bit slow and not at a PC currently...

What are the dimensions? I've followed the thread but no pictures or dimensions.

I've got the same question. Where is this bearing used? Also is it used on both hydro and gear drives? Lastly, what is the frequency of failure?

[wheeledhorseman 574]

I'm certainly no expert in bearings but even where the markings on a standard bearing aren't readable or are missing then bearing stockists measure the critical dimensions ID, OD and depth, whether it has a flange or not and in this case (I think) the fact that it is a thrust bearing. If you look at the temporary factory work around diags, even with a ball bearing that was available at the time, a washer had to be added to take the thrust forces so I'm guessing the bearing they used would have collapsed without this.

Costs may certainly prove to be the death of this investigation but it's worth persuing none the less as there are other obsolete and pretty much unobtainable bearings e.g. front wheel bearings for a D series. The issue is that WH used some bearings in their designs that were non-standard, a practice also evident in the automobile and motorcycle manufacturing industry leaving you no option but to buy replacement parts from them.

We need to see this through to a conclusion either way.

Andy

[TT-(Moderator) 1,145]

Here is one application of many.... a #5073 six-speed Uni-Drive:

Bearing removed from case:

Here is what rides in the bearings:

There's nothing odd or special about radial ball bearings with an ID of 1.5", or an OD of 2.5", or a width of .5"........

The problem is that those three dimensions all belong to one bearing, making it very unique.

It really seems strange that the Ponds would have designed the cases / end caps to use what I consider to be a non-standard bearing, but maybe back in '60 / '61 that bearing was popular in cars or trucks of some sort? :confusion-shrug:

[608KEB 795]

I just picked these up this afternoon. I bought these from a former Wheel Horse dealer. I actually bought my first Wheel Horse from the dealer in 1979 when I was 14. A used commando 800....I think.  Anyways, I was just curious has anyone had these #1533 S.O.L. bearing go bad with normal usage and mantenance .  I would think they would last a lifetime unless exposed to water. I rebuilt a 1974 B-80 transmission last winter. The bearings were in really good shape (not loose). I didn't know these were unavailble until I rebuilt the trannsmission. The dealer happened to have 1 pair left in his inventory for $37.00 a piece.

[sorekiwi 761]

$37 is a killer deal, even before these bearings became NLA.

 

I have a hydro here that has never had water in it, and one of the 1533's is bad.  I havent come up with a cause for it, every other bearing in the box looks fine.

[Keith 21]

I don't know if its feasible to modify the case to accept another bearing.  Some have disassembled bearings and used components such as the balls from new bearings, or make do with a custom brass bushing.   You might check with some of the machinists forums.  There are individuals who restore obsolete equipment with a knack for solving problems like this. 

[pfrederi 17,913]

The only 1533 failures I have had to deal with came from the outer needle bearing disintegrating and taking out the 1533 in the process.  I suppose if the rust inside the case was really really bad then it might damage them beyond use.

 

Bottom line I do not see that the failure rate requiring replacement would be nearly large enough to support a bearing manufacturer making them.  The local bearing house told me the manufactures wanted a run of 10,000. ( I am not sure if he made a factual statement but given the cost of setup I would think a minimum run would be a very big number.)

[diamondred 63]

I think its gonna be less expensive to tool-up to bore the cases and use the more available 1 1/2" x 2 5/8" x 7/16" bearing.