Garden Tractors OR Compact Utility Tractor???

[Challenger 27]

We have more than one Toro Wheel Horse xi tractor. We use them with the following attachments: Mower; snowblower, loader, rototiller, dozer blade, grader blade as well as a tow behind cart, fertilizer, garden sprayer.

A trusted friend has suggested that my dollars would have been better spent investing in a 30h.p. compact utility tractor (CUT) for all of our chores except lawn mowing around the house. (We hire the neighbor to brush hog 5 acres each year for us).

Our Toro Wheel Horse approach to our needs has worked pretty well however the occasional need for 4 wheel drive would be nice. Perhaps a CUT would be handy in situations I've never thought about?

So the question for your consideration: Should I consider selling all of the Wheel Horse goodies, except the residential mower, and put the money towards a CUT???

Due to the mid-winter doldrums I have too much time on my hands and therefore I've been giving this matter some casual thought. Perhaps come March with Spring in the air I'll come to my senses and stick with what I have and what I know.

Your thoughts please.

[WheelHorse79 271]

I am of the philosophy of getting a tractor 1 size larger than what you need. Since you would be keeping one of the tractors for the mowing, trailer towing, etc., a CUT or SCUT might prove worthwhile. You could add a front end loader and a bushhog to take care of the field mowing and any other chores where a FEL comes in handy. The CUT/SCUT could be used with the FEL to move large amounts of snow in the winter (I see you live in Ontario).

I have 2 Wheelhorses and 2 JD tractors. My 425 JD (same size as the X700 series) is not used for mowing, but roto-tilling, bucket scooping, fall leaf removal and moving large heavy objects. The 3 point hitch is handy, and the extra size, power and traction are great for moving felled trees.

I think you will always find additional uses for a tractor if you get one that's 1 size bigger than you need.

Just my $0.02 :)

[refracman 167]

I have had the same debate with myself for a while but storage and cost has stopped me.

It sounds like you have some property to deal with. If it still needs some to a lot of fixing up, a SCUT/CUT would fit your needs better, I would think. Being the XI's dont have a rear diff lock,PTO and 3pt it really limits what it can do.

Renting could be a option on the occasion you need a bigger machine. I've rented skidsteers and mini excavators a few times for the big jobs and it has worked out well without the big investment.

[SousaKerry 501]

There is always the option of getting a small classic farm tractor such as a Ford 9N or similar sized tractor, Not too big but very capable and plentiful, plenty of parts available and much easier on the pocket book. My dad owns about 5 classic tractors in the 20-35HP (Fords, IH, and Allis)range and uses them hard daily on the farm. They are all very rugged and are still going strong with 40-50 years of service. In a light duty application like property maintenance a tractor in good shape would last forever.

Besides classic machinery is always better and more fun to show off.

[Ken B 3,134]

If all of the Wheel Horse attachments get used on a regular basis its gonna cost big bucks to replace them all to use on the larger tractor. It kinda sounds like your needs are being met with the combination that you have, other than the Occasional need of 4WD

[546cowboy 301]

With the prices of a new CUT for occasional use I just can't see the benefit. Like stated above if you need a bigger tractor once and a while I'd buy an older IH with the three point. Listen you are talking $10 to $20K for one of those half sized tractors and $2 to $5K for a good used tractor.

A friend of mine just sold a Ford 4000 with a loader for $4800 to a guy who had a CUT. The reason he bought the tractor was because he wanted a loader and one for his CUT was $6000+. I don't know what your financial situation is but it looks like a no brainer to me. :twocents-02cents:

Edited January 30, 2013 by 546cowboy

[leeave96 487]

If I had a bigger place, more $$$'s - maybe a CUT.

I had an Uncle one time back in the late 70's that bought small Kubota tractor, about 16hp. I want to say it was a B6100 or B7100 - lots of water under the bridge since then - LOL.

That was a handy tractor, it was 4 x 4 and fit the bill for moldboard plowing with ease.

So what to do?

One thing I consider now days is how old I am and how old I"m going to be getting - LOL. I appreciate the Wheelhorse size in that I can handle wrestling the tractor around if it breaks, remove and reinstall all the attachments and should be able to do so once I retire too. It feels good to me that I don't have to necessarily rely on my neighbors or family to help manhandle the tractor - nor do I need a large flatbed trailer and full size truck to tow it with. Also, since each tractor cost much less than one CUT, if one goes down, I'm not out of action - plus, I can rely on the simplicity of the Wheelhorse and some great online support from like minded good folks on these forums to get things going again - and have a conversation about it.

So what to do...

Keep your Wheelhorse tractors and buy a CUT too.

Good luck,

Bill

[Rick_in_CT 156]

As a two 522xi owner I have asked myself the exact question that you are pondering. I have considered a used New Holland TC26 or similar a number of times, but I keep coming back to thinking that I only need its larger capabilities now and then, and somehow I get by with the two tractors. Because I am very dependent on having an operational tractor (it's tough to have dependencies like these) I like the peace of mind that I always have back-up if one was to go down. Being a collector of attachments as well, I think KenB's point is well taken that it will be very expensive to replicate these for a CUT. I am a believer that if you can afford a machine that will make your life easier, go for it. I am currently at a place where the two machines will do me well for now. Let us know what you decide.

[pfrederi 17,515]

Go older small farm tractor. I have a 1951 Case VAC, she was the size as the Ford 8N (and much cheaper nowdays). She has an eagle hitch (just like a 3pt) and live hydraulics that Ford didn't have. I got her at an auction a few years ago with a trip bucket loader for $1100. Spent another 500 to get her in good shape. Took the loader off (got the d200 and a Farmall M with loader). The VAC Case pulls a 6ft finish mower is much faster and a better ride than the WHs.

Also have 1953 Case DC3 (40 hp) She does heavy snow plowing with a back blade and runs a 7ft sickle bar. (Live PTO and Hydraulic) I have about $2000 invested in her (less implements).

Paid big bucks for a 1943 Farmall M ($2000, you pay for the name) she has a nice trip bucket loader, pulls a 5 ft Bush Hog...no 3 pt or live hydraulics

They may be old but I could go out in the shop right now and they would fire up on the first few cranks and be ready to work for a lot less money than some new muti-thousand dollar made in India/China pieces of stuff. Just be sure you get 3pt and if possible live PTO and Hydro

[can whlvr 993]

yep i agree with an older farm tractor,heck you can get one with a bucket,and probally all the implements you will need for far less than a new one,and you could keep the horses

[JackC 617]

Mine are my toys and the issue is what toys do I want to play with. I would keep more than one xi and add a bigger toy. You only go this way once and when you leave you want your last check to bounce.

[baerpath 517]

We looked at the cuts, decided for the money they were a waste, For 5 grand we bought a John Deere 2155 frarm tractor with a loader Best thing we've done. Does whatever we need and the buckets large enough to put a WH in if we need to. We don't use it often but when we need it it's there..

[wh500special 2,118]

I think many - perhaps most - of us on this board are collectors of some sort or another. In addition to having redundant tractors, we probably have a lot of other stuff floating around in our shops for backups. It's just in our blood to have a contingency plan. i mean really, how many cordless drills and push brooms does a guy need?

And we like the easy-to-work-on nature of our simple, old machines. Which is nice, because it seems like they require frequent piddling to file points, fix a leak, replace a fouled plug, scrape the schmutz off an old battery terminal, etc.

I've seen a lot of guys in this hobby eventually migrate to a compact utility or subcompact utility class tractor. At some point, many get tired of the NEED for a backup machine which is practically a fact of life when you're running an antique that's been around the world a time or two. Your 5xi's may still be "new" enough that you don't have the occasional letdowns, so they can probably continue soldiering on for a while with minimal issues. So these comments may not yet apply.

Part of this common migration usually passes through a classic farm tractor. And it's obvious why: They're a sixth the cost of a new machine. But, they too suffer from years of wear and have personality traits that can make them hard to start. Most were built really well, but technology and years of use have their limits to make them reliable 50 years later.

It seems like most time this arc finishes with the guy who started with a brace of Wheel Horses ending up buying a new (or new-ish) diesel compact tractor. The reliability is usually better and these machines can perform an amazing amount of work in a short time compared to a GT. Granted, attachments can cost more but the 3pt mounted variety are pretty much universal. Which means you don't need to spring $2500 on a Deere rototiller, you can buy a $400, used "king cutter" tiller from Craigslist. Or a $150 rear blade to move snow.

Anyway, if I had the need and the means, I'd only want to rely on a single multipurpose tractor. I'd keep my Wheel Horse because they're toys that I like to relax with. The Subcompacts are small, light, and powerful enough to operate close to the house without taking out a row of your wife's rose bushes. Yet, with a loader or blade, they can clear a driveway a lot faster than any 'Horse with a plow. And, they are much more reliable - in my experience - than older GT's.

I live in town now, but my last house had a giant yard so I had more need for a real tractor. My solution wasn't actually that expensive: a 1981 Ford 1700 diesel utility ($2500). I used a 1987 72" rear Deere finish mower to mow the lawn ($900), a 5' Howse bush hog for the field ($150), and a 6' blade on the driveway (I think it was less than $200 new). That tractor worked great. One time I had a breakdown when my waterpump seized up. I did have to wait for the part for maybe a week and mowed the yard with a C160/42" deck and it drove me nuts with all the noise, shaking, and excruciating pace. But, I got it mowed.

Eventually, a zero turn stole the lawn mowing chores away from the Ford. But I still used it for the field and for miscellaneous things.

My dad is on his second Kubota BX subcompact and loves being able to turn the key at any time and start working right now. The one he used to have was a BX2200 with 60" deck and loader. This one is a BX24 (I think) with a 60" deck, loader, and backhoe (Dad is a tree and plant afficionado and is constantly planting or digging up something). Somewhere, I have a picture of dad's BX parked next to my D250 and one of my 5xi's. The Kubota is just a touch bigger than both of them, but it can mount multiple implements at one time and run them each independently, which is a time saver since you don't need to drop the mower to use the loader or till the garden as examples.

The irony of this that I'm seeing as I type this saga is that the migration to a single, multipurpose machine mirrors the whole point of Wheel Horse's marketing strategy in the first place. But the size is larger. And, the reliability can be better.

Reliablilty costs something. It can be money (like a new CUT) or space and time (old GT's).

Your milage may vary,

Steve

[6wheeler 598]

I am going to make some changes as well. I use the 165 and the 520 as well as my custom 116JD for the gardens. The 520 does mowing duty also, so I have to take off the deck and put it back on. Last year my neighbor needed a place to store his 3600 Ford diesel. I had shed space, so it landed here. Along with a 2-14" moldboard plow and an 8' mounted digger and 8' tandem disc. What a difference that made for my gardens. He may want to sell it this spring because he bought another one at the auction last fall. I have a Bobcat for snow and dirt work so I don't need a loader tractor. But a tractor for the gardens I could use. Then the LGT's would all be turned over for yard work only. He paid $2000.00 for this other Ford and if I can get one that cheap I will do it. Even if I could find a D-200 or 400 JD with a 3 point I would still be facing the same problems I have now. I just don't think they are big enough for what I need. An older Ford or similar tractor would be the ticket. I am still kicking myself for not waiting at the auction for a repainted JD"A" that had hydraulics and trip bucket loader and a sickle mower last fall. It sold complete for $900.00. Oh well, maybe this spring another opportunity will present itself. I don't think a cut or scut would be able to justify its price since they are anywhere from $10 to $30 grand :twocents-02cents:

[pfrederi 17,515]

I think many - perhaps most - of us on this board are collectors of some sort or another. In addition to having redundant tractors, we probably have a lot of other stuff floating around in our shops for backups. It's just in our blood to have a contingency plan. i mean really, how many cordless drills and push brooms does a guy need?

And we like the easy-to-work-on nature of our simple, old machines. Which is nice, because it seems like they require frequent piddling to file points, fix a leak, replace a fouled plug, scrape the schmutz off an old battery terminal, etc.

I've seen a lot of guys in this hobby eventually migrate to a compact utility or subcompact utility class tractor. At some point, many get tired of the NEED for a backup machine which is practically a fact of life when you're running an antique that's been around the world a time or two. Your 5xi's may still be "new" enough that you don't have the occasional letdowns, so they can probably continue soldiering on for a while with minimal issues. So these comments may not yet apply.

Part of this common migration usually passes through a classic farm tractor. And it's obvious why: They're a sixth the cost of a new machine. But, they too suffer from years of wear and have personality traits that can make them hard to start. Most were built really well, but technology and years of use have their limits to make them reliable 50 years later.

It seems like most time this arc finishes with the guy who started with a brace of Wheel Horses ending up buying a new (or new-ish) diesel compact tractor. The reliability is usually better and these machines can perform an amazing amount of work in a short time compared to a GT. Granted, attachments can cost more but the 3pt mounted variety are pretty much universal. Which means you don't need to spring $2500 on a Deere rototiller, you can buy a $400, used "king cutter" tiller from Craigslist. Or a $150 rear blade to move snow.

Anyway, if I had the need and the means, I'd only want to rely on a single multipurpose tractor. I'd keep my Wheel Horse because they're toys that I like to relax with. The Subcompacts are small, light, and powerful enough to operate close to the house without taking out a row of your wife's rose bushes. Yet, with a loader or blade, they can clear a driveway a lot faster than any 'Horse with a plow. And, they are much more reliable - in my experience - than older GT's.

I live in town now, but my last house had a giant yard so I had more need for a real tractor. My solution wasn't actually that expensive: a 1981 Ford 1700 diesel utility ($2500). I used a 1987 72" rear Deere finish mower to mow the lawn ($900), a 5' Howse bush hog for the field ($150), and a 6' blade on the driveway (I think it was less than $200 new). That tractor worked great. One time I had a breakdown when my waterpump seized up. I did have to wait for the part for maybe a week and mowed the yard with a C160/42" deck and it drove me nuts with all the noise, shaking, and excruciating pace. But, I got it mowed.

Eventually, a zero turn stole the lawn mowing chores away from the Ford. But I still used it for the field and for miscellaneous things.

My dad is on his second Kubota BX subcompact and loves being able to turn the key at any time and start working right now. The one he used to have was a BX2200 with 60" deck and loader. This one is a BX24 (I think) with a 60" deck, loader, and backhoe (Dad is a tree and plant afficionado and is constantly planting or digging up something). Somewhere, I have a picture of dad's BX parked next to my D250 and one of my 5xi's. The Kubota is just a touch bigger than both of them, but it can mount multiple implements at one time and run them each independently, which is a time saver since you don't need to drop the mower to use the loader or till the garden as examples.

The irony of this that I'm seeing as I type this saga is that the migration to a single, multipurpose machine mirrors the whole point of Wheel Horse's marketing strategy in the first place. But the size is larger. And, the reliability can be better.

Reliablilty costs something. It can be money (like a new CUT) or space and time (old GT's).

Your milage may vary,

Steve

I will put my antiques ability to start up against the newer tractors any day. If I was feeling the urge I can always start 2 of them with a hand crank. (the third is missing her crank) Yes they do sometimes need some repair work...but I do not need an box full of special tools and electrical diagnostic computers to figure out and fix their problems. Never had to wait more than a week for parts if I did need them, I doubt the parts supply for one of Indian- Chinese made new ones is much faster.

You may be buying a John Deere or New Holland tractor now days but they were all made overseas. ( I read where there are no tractors under 100hp made in the US anymore and that matches what I have seen at fairs and shows)

I won't get into the carbon foot print of making a new tractor even vs the lower fuel efficiency of the old girls.

If I had a business that required daily use for several hours a day, yes I would buy a new tractor but for the vast majority of this group maintaining our own property is not that stressful on the equipment

[Jim_M 178]

I bought a 25 horse, 3 cyl. diesel, 4WD utility tractor. Soon after I bought a 5 foot tiller for it, no longer a need for my 308-8 w/ tiller so I sold it. Then I bought a 6 foot grader blade and had no need for the diesl 654 w/ dozer blade so I sold it. Then I found a deal on a front end loader for it, now I have no need for my 520-H diesel w/ loader so it's for sale.

As much as I love my Wheel Horses they just can't compete with a 25 horse diesel 4wd. Now I have room to get my log splitter and firewood trailer inside, I have less equipment to maintain, less batteries to replace and use less diesel fuel.

[Challenger 27]

Thanks for all the comments so far and please keep them coming.

Now I'm starting to think about this a little more seriously.

I REALLY like the Wheel Horses. They are reliable, trustworthy tools and great fun to play with. However, as some of you have commented, the tractors and attachments take-up a lot of space and I do have significant annual routine service costs of dollars and time to keep everything in good shape.

My wife likes the size of the tractors and feels comfortable cutting grass and doing some gardening and landscaping projects with them. She did grow-up on a small sheep farm with a Massey Ferguson 135 keeping things up. A tractor that size is in her comfort zone but it has to be a hydro. She was never able to comfortably operate the Massey and she wants to be able to drive any tractor we might buy.

No decisions yet but the idea of a small, affordable USED, hydro, CUT with front end loader and a mower PLUS a Wheel Horse might be the ticket.

[DoctorHfuhruhurr 137]

How much of a budget are you working with? (roughly)

[CRE1992 135]

Well, Ill put it this way. A 5XI while it is a rugged machine, it is really nothing more than a garden tractor. As Kevin said before me. Yes they are capable, however a compact will always have its advantages. Diesel engine (better fuel economy), 4wd (more traction), more lift capability whether it is from the three point or a loader. I have a power king, which is a really big garden tractor, however as you will see in the pictures garden tractors are limited as to what they can do.

[Save Old Iron 1,565]

Living la dolce vita with a JD 850 3cyl diesel w/ loader, backhoe, King Cutter box blade, IH brush cutter and IH backblade and a ride home in the Caddy. The only regret is the ag's can do a little number on the lawn in early spring. Otherwise, this is an unstoppable combo. The down side is when these pieces stay outside while Wheel Horses and Cubs (and spare parts) enjoy the comfort of the small barn. This will have to change in the near future. The D200 and tiller will stay as long as they remain trouble free. Otherwise that $400 CUT tiller on Craigslist will get a phone call.

Now that I think about it , I probably should have hung a Raider off the backhoe to make Charles happy !!!

[Challenger 27]

$6,000 - $10,000 budget

Must have Front End Loader, 4' - 5' brush hog.

I have a 1997 F150 pick-up with factory towing and a 14' tandem utility trailer. I don't want to pay a dealer to shuttle the tractor for service. I'd like to be able to transfer the machine to another location a couple of times a year for additional brush hog and snow stacking duties. My point: It can't be TOO big!

[Jim_M 178]

There are a lot of used machines out there for the money you've budgeted. You should be able to find exactly what you're looking for.

Good luck and happy hunting.

[Forest Road 594]

Let us know when you're ready to unload those Xis. Although I'd love a cut the Xis suit my needs to the letter. Good luck!

[CRE1992 135]

Now that I think about it , I probably should have hung a Raider off the backhoe to make Charles happy !!!

Yes SOI that would make me very happy =]. We also have the front end loader, 5 ft rototiller, backhoe and too many other attachments for that thing.

[DoctorHfuhruhurr 137]

You may want to consider a TYM if you have a dealer within reach. http://www.tym-tractors.com/tractors.php They used to produce the 10 series tractors for Mahindra before switching to manufacture their own brand in 2001 using Caterpillar/Perkins and Mitsubishi engines. They're not as good as a Deere but they aren't a Chinese tractor like Jinma either.

Smith's Enterprise has the best prices I could find and they deliver anywhere. Below is an example of one of their monthly specials. You could probably opt out of the trailer to bring the price down or to get a different attachment.

http://www.smithsenterprise.com/tym.html

Monthly Specials

Your Choice 13,773

TYM T-233 Hydrostatic Drive 4x4 23 hp with Front End Loader ( Quick Detachable Skid Steer)

Choice of the 4 ft cutter and 16 Foot Carolina Daul Axle 7k Trailer

with Brakes, Lights, Sides and Full Rear Gate