Paul D. 26 #1 Posted January 21, 2013 So I finally have snow. Replaced the governor gear a few weeks ago and had it running great and now it won't start! If I have the throttle and the choke up it won't hardly turn over. It's almost like the compression release isn't working. In the last year I have replaced the battery and the starter and the engine is a fresh rebuild (less than a year and a half ago). The starter is getting hot just from trying to start it up. Any help would be appreciated. Model. C-141 Koehler k321 14hp. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 15,417 #2 Posted January 21, 2013 I would check your battery first. Put the charger on it for a while and see if it makes a difference. Sent from my MB520 using Tapatalk 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,695 #3 Posted January 21, 2013 Maybe it is the release...looks like you have done a lot of stuff...could be anything. What viscosity oil do you have in the crank case? Are you pushing in the clutch when turning the key so you are not turning the trans? Maybe the points are a little off? Check the plug to see if it is fouled? I would not over heat that starter...it should start before you do that. Choke adjustment? Are you saying that it cranks OK with the throttle and choke in a different position? I have no idea why it would do that. It was warmer a few weeks ago...maybe see if the choke is closing all the way now that it is colder out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunahead72 2,400 #4 Posted January 22, 2013 I'm with Bob here. As cold as it's probably been up your way since you last ran it (a few weeks ago?), you could just be looking at a weak battery. At least check it with a voltage tester while it's at rest, anything under about 12.6 volts or so and that could be your problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldredrider 2,548 #5 Posted January 22, 2013 Along with checking/charging your battery, also make sure you have GOOD connections to battery, solenoid, ground etc. Cold weather does bad stuff to electrical connections. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roscoemi 245 #6 Posted January 22, 2013 Like freeze ignition switches. My C-121 was out side and I figured it needed to be in the barn in this weather. It would do nothing. Had plenty of juice, turned the key on and jumped the solenoid. It would crank but not fire, smelled gas. I put a hair dryer on the ignition switch and it fired up 30 seconds later from the key. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul D. 26 #7 Posted January 22, 2013 I had the battery hooked up to the charger and even tried to jump it with my truck. If I run the throttle up when trying to start it it will turn a couple times and then stop. Almost like the starter just doesn't have the torque to turn it (possibly with the throttle open its letting more air into the cylinder to compress). I'm running 10w 30 so that shouldn't be an issue. I did replace the ground cable from the block to the frame. I didn't have as heavy a gauge wire as I would have liked to have had but thought it was heavy enough. It was heavy enough 2 weeks ago. Could it possibly be the solenoid? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevasaurus 22,695 #8 Posted January 22, 2013 Put a meter on the battery...like was said above should be 12.6. If you have a dead cell, charging or jumping it won't make any difference. A bad ground anywhere in the ignition system would do what you have. Doubt it is the solenoid, you would be getting a click and then nothing. Regulator is a better choice to check out. I ran a ground from under the starter bolt to the frame of the tractor on my B-100...it helped a lot. :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buckrancher 2,679 #9 Posted January 23, 2013 can you turn the motor over by hand using the flywheel screen? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldredrider 2,548 #10 Posted January 23, 2013 The C-141, as I'm sure you know, has 2 ground wires...one to the frame and one from engine to cradle mount. Both ground wires need GOOD connections for every thing to work properly. You said you replaced one of them with a lighter gauge wire. Starters require not just good voltage, but high amps to operate. Proper wire gauge size and tight connections are very important in this equation, especially during cold weather. Try jumping a known good battery (like in your truck) to a known good ground point on your engine (negative)...like a head bolt. Momentarily connect the positive lead to the starter post on the Kohler and see if you get a good "spin". If it does turn over like it should, you have poor connections somewhere. If not, you may have internal issues with your engine. Hope this helps. Let us know 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brybrychrismer 17 #11 Posted January 23, 2013 Sounds to me like it could be some form of timing issue. Try taking the spark plug out and see if you turn the flywheel by hand? if not i would guess an internal problem. also during the last use was it under any strain. I have had a few slip the flywheel key and have it cause all kinds of problems. Hope this gives you a few things to check. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul D. 26 #12 Posted January 24, 2013 So i am starting to think the points may have been knocked out of time some how. Being that we are in a heatwave today (20deg.) I went out to work on getting the old horse fired up today. It did seem to turn over better but what I noticed is it would turn a few times, kick back and blow exhaust out the air intake. The plug is fouled as well. I won't have time to work on it until this weekend but I think that may be my starting point. Anyone with any input on this (am I on the right track or not) let me know. I am far from an expert on this stuff. Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldredrider 2,548 #13 Posted January 27, 2013 A funny thing happened on the forum... In a previous post, I gave you some advice on troubleshooting your problem. I went out today to start up my tractor with the snow blade (14hp). Haven't started it in about 6 weeks, so I thought I would give it the "once over". Put a hot box on it and gave it a shot of starting fluid...started right up. Pulled it into the garage to check things out. About an hour later, went to start it and the motor just "loped" over and wouldn't spin fast enough to start. Put the hot box on it again, same result. Started thinking this sounds familiar. I realized then that I have the same problem you have. This engine is strong as an ox and runs as smooth as silk. About half the time it starts right up. When I bought this tractor (non-running) about 8 years ago, the po said the "starter drags". I have replaced the battery, plug, starter, all battery cables, wiring and solenoid and it still does the same thing. It's a breakerless ignition so, no points to mess with. After trying to start this s.o.b. for about 30 mins, I took a 45 min beer break, came back and it fired right up. This has been a common occurrence since I've owned it...don't know why I couldn't see the situation in your post. (Can't see the forest for the trees!) Hopefully, someone can shed a little light on this problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fourwheels0 191 #14 Posted January 27, 2013 i'd say tear down the starter and give it a good cleaning,check the brushes ect. i'm no expert but it sounds like an electrical issue to me. key switch,relay,wiring somethings not right. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artfull dodger 394 #15 Posted January 27, 2013 I am also thinking the starter has an issue, sounds like worn out brushes or a weak magnetic or broken magnets dragging on the communtator. A weak starter will not spin it fast enough to get it started and will also get quite hot in the process. Time to swap it out or tear it down to see whats going on. Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul D. 26 #16 Posted January 27, 2013 Bingo. Found the problem. Pulled off the starter(that I bought in April brand new) pulled it apart and sure enough chunks of magnet. I've got an email into the place I bought it from on amazon now. We will see what there response is. I saw in one of the reviews for them that someone else had had a similar problem and they sent them a replacement. Thanks for all the input and I will keep you all posted Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldredrider 2,548 #17 Posted January 27, 2013 Bazinga!!! Replaced the starter on the 14hp and it started right up. The starter that was on it was stiff to turn over. I'll pull it apart and report my findings...probably just needs a good cleaning. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul D. 26 #18 Posted January 27, 2013 Heard back from the supplier (twice) within about an hour of emailing them. They sent me a number to call tomorrow to set up the return shipping of my bad starter and getting a new one shipped out. They said that all of there parts carry a one year warranty. Hopefully this all works out as well as it looks like its going to. I will keep you posted. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul D. 26 #19 Posted January 27, 2013 Bazinga!!! Replaced the starter on the 14hp and it started right up. The starter that was on it was stiff to turn over. I'll pull it apart and report my findings...probably just needs a good cleaning. Glad that worked for ya! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldredrider 2,548 #20 Posted January 27, 2013 I want to add that I have replaced this starter before. Guessing that since I don't use this tractor much (shame on me!) it just got lonely. I suppose that's one of the downsides of having a barn full of tractors. (Please don't tell the wife!) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldredrider 2,548 #21 Posted January 30, 2013 As a follow up, I took the starter apart and it was pretty dirty inside. Cleaned it up and found the bushing on the drive side is about shot. It seems to bench test fine but the bushing will need to be replaced. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul D. 26 #22 Posted February 10, 2013 Well. I got my new starter in this past wednesday. It's in and tractor is running great! I must say that the service at DB electric was incredible. I emailed them on a Saturday not expecting to here from them until Monday. They emailed me back within about 30 min. Between my work schedule and the very limited schedule of my (very)small town post office I was not able to ship the bad starter out until last Saturday. I guess the question now is how well will this starter perform long term. I guess it doesn't really matter how good your customer service is if your product is crap. So far I'm impressed but only time will tell Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
groundhog47 347 #23 Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) Sounds to me like it could be some form of timing issue. Try taking the spark plug out and see if you turn the flywheel by hand? if not i would guess an internal problem. also during the last use was it under any strain. I have had a few slip the flywheel key and have it cause all kinds of problems. Hope this gives you a few things to check. Deleted my post 'cause you found the cure, agreed with this though! Edited February 10, 2013 by groundhog47 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul D. 26 #24 Posted February 10, 2013 Sounds to me like it could be some form of timing issue. Try taking the spark plug out and see if you turn the flywheel by hand? if not i would guess an internal problem. also during the last use was it under any strain. I have had a few slip the flywheel key and have it cause all kinds of problems. Hope this gives you a few things to check. Deleted my post 'cause you found the cure, agreed with this though! Was my thought as well considering I had just replaced the starter in April it wasn't even on my radar. My neighbor actually suggested it and so we started checking Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
