Paint

[Dtrain 0]

Hey I'm new to this whole forum thing so forgive me for dumb questions !!! With that said I bought a red beast a couple of years ago 310-8 , it was in pretty good shape but the paint started peeling so I made it in to a winter project , I have completely torn this thing down to bear frame stripped to bear metal and painted with Valspar tractor paint , "i have no spray gun " the finish I'm getting is plenty good for the shields , foot pans , ect , but I would like a better finish for the hood and fenders any ideas I thought Mabey rustolem ? The tractor paint sprays very heavy , would like to wax this thing when I'm finished ? Any help would be appreciated

[Save Old Iron 1,565]

How did you apply the Valspar? from a spray can? brush ? roller ?

If a spray gun is not in your immediate future, the next step down is a spray can. Hood and fender areas will turn out very nice with a spray can finish and hours of wet sanding, recoating and wet sanding again then polishing the final coat.

Smooth and shiny can be achieved on any top coat regardless of how it was applied. The formula has always been plenty of elbow grease, plenty of time and additional funds for a bucket of water, wet / dry sandpaper and polishing supplies.

[Save Old Iron 1,565]

and I forgot - nothing looks good on top of a poorly prepared surface. The final coat of primer should look as good as you expect your top coat to look. Surface prep prior to topcoating is 90% of the battle to a show quality finish.

[Dtrain 0]

I primed and sprayed everything with a can , wet sanded primer but not the paint , Everything had turned out good , im not afraid of the extra work ! Just wondering if a certain kind of spray paint will be easier to work with ?

[Save Old Iron 1,565]

Just wondering if a certain kind of spray paint will be easier to work with ?

That's an age old question which seems to defy a straight answer - so I won't attempt one.

However, a little advice distilled from years of trial may be in order. I only use spray cans in the winter when HVLP spray gun use is not possible. Over the last few seasons, I have met with increasing success following a few simple rules.

Age

Whatever brand paint you use, use the "freshest" cans available. If you have a choice of pulling the first 3 cans of Regal Red Rustoleum from the self or the last 3 - go for the last 3. They may be the most recent manufactured date. If you see cans with dust on the tops and cans without dust - go for the clean cans. I do believe Rustoleum publishes a FAQ on how to decode their date stamps imprinted on the spray can bottoms.

Shake Well

Pay no attention to the "Shake for 1 minute" instructions on the can. Shake the can until you say to yourself "this is stupid" and you lay the can down. If your arm is sore, you have probably shaken the can sufficiently. I saw a device on the internet that really helps in this step. Imagine a 12 inch long wood demo blade (teeth dulled) mounted to a sawzall. The spray paint can is strapped onto the sawzall blade and shaken for a few minutes on low speed.

http://mixkwik.com/

IMO, this process makes a world of difference in preventing the paint nozzles from clogging due to clumps of pigment in the spray can.

Surface Prep

Most folks complain about spray can paint "chipping" easily. I also had several issues with easily chipped final coats a few years back. What I always noticed was the top coat would chip but the primer coat somehow stayed attached. This "chipping" turned out to be delamination of the top color coat from the primer coat caused by poor adhesion.

Poor adhesion can be a problem at several stages of the paint process. Prior to applying the primer, make sure the surface is able to allow the paint to "bite" into the metal.

Imagine trying to paint a pane of clean glass. The paint will peel off in a sheet from the smooth surface. Take that same surface and rough it up a bit with 180 - 220 paper, the paint will stick much better. Now imagine if you have a dusty, glass smooth, wire wheeled tractor part waiting for paint. What chance does the primer or body filler really have to adhere to a surface that smooth!

I scuff all non sandblasted parts with RED 3M scuff pads (probably the equivalent of 220 sand paper) prior to washing them in water and Dawn dish washing liquid. After drying, wipe down the the washed parts with 70% IPA (isopropyl alcohol). I was amazed at the sand blast media residue removed by the IPA and Dawn cleanings. With all loose residue removed from the metal surface, the primer will adhere to the metal and not just lay on top of a dust layer on the surface of the metal. Note : wiping down a surface with Acetone or lacquer thinner does not allow the grease or oils to dissolve and float off the surface. Acetone will quickly flash off and leave the dried residue right back on the surface before you have a chance to wipe it off.

This same concept goes when you scuff the primer coat prior to top coat application. I always wipe down scuffed primer with IPA. Again, you will be amazed at what comes off the surface.

Egg Timer

Get one. Best darn $3 I have invested in my painting supplies to date.

I believe of all the modifications to my routine for spray can paint application, the consistency of WAITING THE PROPER TIME between application of multiple coats yielded the largest gains. As a first step for top coat application, SPRAY ON A MIST COAT. Forget about how it looks, you want a light mist coat, maybe 50% coverage over the primer. Set the egg timer for 30 minutes and WALK AWAY. Ding, Ding. After 30 minutes the mist coat should be tacky. This tacky coat will be a good bond between the primer and the subsequent top coats. Very important step to get right.

Subsequent top coats should be applied in light applications. Enamel paint needs time to cure prior to being covered by another coat. If you spray on several thick coats 'cause it looks good, you will end up with what I call "pudding skin", a thin, dry layer of paint over a thicker, semi dry, oxygen starved layer of paint which may take weeks or months to fully cure. Enamel paint needs exposure to oxygen to cure - which is very different from "drying". Lacquer paint "dries". Solvent evaporates from lacquer leaving the pigment behind. Enamel paints harden thru chemical reaction - not evaporation.

Takeaway point here is first layer of topcoat is a misty tack coat. Wait about 30 minutes and put on a light 2nd coat. Set the egg timer for 1 hour and leave the room. Come back in an hour and apply a second light top coat - set the egg timer for 1 hour, etc, etc until you are satisfied with the finish. The wait time is important as it allows each layer of topcoat a chance to oxygen exposure and a chance to cure sufficiently before the next coat. If you cram all the paint on in one or two thick coats, the first layer of topcoat will never dry - its oxygen has been cutoff by the 2nd thick layer of topcoat. The first layer of topcoat will then "chip" off easily weeks and months later.

Temperature

Personally, I have much better luck painting with spray cans at the lower end of the recommended temperature range for application. One of the secrets of a good top coat is to maintain a "wet edge" to the paint. As you apply strokes of paint across the piece, if the thin fan of paint produced by a spray can dries before you head back over it with a second stroke, the layer of paint may be uneven and dry with a rough finish. Lower outside temps allow the paint to dry somewhat slower and prevent the "dry edge" from showing up on your work.

In summary, I'm not sure any spray can paint, regardless of the manufacturer, contains sufficient UV blockers and top quality binders necessary for them to compete with automotive paints. Those components are expensive and you are not going to get them in a $4 can of spray paint. Spray can paint manufacturer choice is your personal choice. I do believe spray guns are the way to go for even atomization of paint and a glossy finish "right from the gun". Spray cans lack the consistent atomization and fan width to provide any real competition for HVLP or pressure guns. But I still contend, you can swab paint on a tractor with toilet paper wrapped around a stick as long as you are willing to spend extra time, money and effort to wet sand it all down level. Once that happens and you polish it, the finish will look as good as produced by high end spray equipment.

You will also learn quickly that every paint job looks "ab fab" (absolutely fabulous) in pictures - from 3 feet away. Up close - under curmudgeon scrutiny - well, that's a story for another day. You will need to decide if spending 3 days prepping and painting a hood is worth the investment.

Good luck in all your efforts and Welcome To RedSquare !!

[Tankman 3,516]

Not a painter by any means. After painting, I like to use RustOleum Crystal Clear for a top coat.

I've been using RustOleum Regal Red and then the top coat. I only top coat the seat/fender pan and the hood. More time is spent cleaning the parts than painting. Save Old Iron's post says it all.

"We're not making watches." :)

[rmaynard 15,294]

...a little advice distilled from years of trial may be in order. I only use spray cans in the winter when HVLP spray gun use is not possible. Over the last few seasons, I have met with increasing success following a few simple rules...

Some very good advice, no matter what you are painting with, but as the old saying goes, "a picture is worth 1000 words". How about showing us some pictures of your tractors painted the "rattle can" method.

[sorekiwi 761]

Thats a very good post Chuck.

[Dtrain 0]

I think u guys have awnsered all my questions perfectly. !!

[Save Old Iron 1,565]

One last caution...

Resist the temptation to clear coat anything until you have gained experience with the clear coat process USING SPARE PARTS OR PIECES OF SCRAP SHEET METAL painted especially for the purpose of learning clear coat.

I have ruined more near perfect paint jobs than I care to tell about by applying too much clear coat too soon after the topcoat, It will not be the high-lite of your restoration process when an engine shroud or hood you worked on for days turns to wrinkle finish in seconds after you apply clear coat.

Practice first on some scrap pieces. You have been warned.

[Tankman 3,516]

One last caution...

Resist the temptation to clear coat anything until you have gained experience with the clear coat process USING SPARE PARTS OR PIECES OF SCRAP SHEET METAL painted especially for the purpose of learning clear coat.

I have ruined more near perfect paint jobs than I care to tell about by applying too much clear coat too soon after the topcoat, It will not be the high-lite of your restoration process when an engine shroud or hood you worked on for days turns to wrinkle finish in seconds after you apply clear coat.

Practice first on some scrap pieces. You have been warned.

Been there, done that! Sanded off the clear coat, pretty much had to start over; removed the clear coat, repainted, then, clear coat either quickly or after several days of dry-time. Ouch.

Practice makes perfect.

[rmaynard 15,294]

Most technical data sheets for aerosol paints do not recommend clear coating.

Here is a pull quote from the TDS for Rustoleum Regal Red:

"Dry and recoat times are based on 70°F and 50% relative humidity. Allow more time at cooler temperatures. Dries tack free in 2-4 hours, to handle in 5-9 hours, and is fully dry in 24 hours. Apply a second coat within 1 hour or after 48 hours. A clear coat finish is not recommended."

[855ownerJoel 32]

Very good advice from Save Old Iron! I have an uncle who has had his own body shop for years.... he has ALWAYS told me that proper surface preparation is a MUST.. You need to paint slow (watch grass grow) and then apply subsequent coat (watch grass grow) and recoat...... Most people rush the painting process and ruin their paint job. Also, as my uncle proved to me, look really close at the paint job on even many new cars and you will see orange peel. (Paint on close inspection looks like an "orange peel", kinda pitted). That is caused by several different possibilities: Rushing job, Improper mixture of paint to thinner and hardener........ In the case of painting with whatever method you choose, properly prepare surface, clean clean clean surface, paint closely by directions, TAKE PLENTY OF TIME do not rush this part of restore.... When painting, its not a bad idea to carefully wet ground/floor with water under area painting so you do not stir up any dust while painting. BTW Save Old Iron, I need more advise on the toilet paper on a stick method....

[Duff 206]

BTW Save Old Iron, I need more advise on the toilet paper on a stick method....

Charmin on a wooden paint stirrer works pretty good, is readily available, and doesn't leave little pieces stuck to the ***!

Duff :ROTF:

But seriously, Chuck, GREAT post! :text-thankyoublue:

[Save Old Iron 1,565]

BTW Save Old Iron, I need more advise on the toilet paper on a stick method....

Charmin on a wooden paint stirrer works pretty good, is readily available, and doesn't leave little pieces stuck to the ***!

Duff :ROTF:

But seriously, Chuck, GREAT post!

2 ply Duff

always use 2 ply

[KC9KAS 4,741]

Dtrain....

S.O.I. is not only a wizz at electrical problems, he has great advise about painting!

[Save Old Iron 1,565]

I was fortunate enough to attend a 3M sponsored painting seminar / sales pitch a few years back. Picked up quite a few pointers on surface prep from those folks that easily translated into good spray can finishes. The instructor was very good at explaining WHY certain things had to be done, not just spewing out WHAT needed to be done. I learn more from the WHY than WHAT. Thought I would pass some of that experience along to others.

I would love to get in on one the Mequiar's refinishing seminars (Hint, Hint, if there are any Mequiar's reps listening).

[Anglo Traction 761]

All good advice from SOI , of which I complied with for many years. I used Spray Cans (automotive) for both my Tractors (and other work), primarily because I don't have Spray Booth facilities and prefer painting each part/panel individually. I also use Lacquer over the paint colour

Painting in the lower temp range and when Humidity is low produces better finishes, but longer drying times.

I also Paint over Powder on the main panels. This is a personal preference and produces a good corrosion resistant base (The undersides of these panels are left Black Powdercoat) . Here are a few close-ish shots of my results, which are not perfect, but good enough for a 3 footer/workers.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Anglo Traction

[welderman85 53]

great advice i am in the processe of spray painting my GT1142 so all of these tips will help. thank you also those tractors look great what brand of paint did you use. thank you