Tranny Fluid Weird Color!

[Kevbo 80]

Hi everyone I just drained my trannys on both my C-81 and 312-8 and this is the color it came out!

What does this mean? Is this normal after years of use?

[meadowfield 2,570]

That means they live outside, and years of damp and water ingress via the shift lever have caused the casing to rust and the oil to emulsify.... A good flush through, new shift boot #3577 (I think) and fresh oil and all will be good.

Mark

[varosd 1,185]

looks like the Latte I had yesterday....yes, like Mark posted, flush,flush and flush and then new fluid

[Kevbo 80]

How do I actually flush all the fluid out ?

[MalMac 1,331]

I myself drain it, refill with Kerosene then jack up the back wheels, start it and put it in gear for a tad bit then drain it. I do this procedure a couple of times till the Kerosene starts coming out clear. I then refill the tranny with oil run it around then drain it to get the mix of Kerosene and oil out. Then refill with oil again. It's important to make sure that you get as much Kerosene out of the transmission as possible because it will break down the lubricating properties of the oil. With todays prices on Kerosene and oil it's not cheap to clean one out but there again new bearings and other parts most certainly are not cheap. I am sure there are other methods, there are a lot of members on here who have face the same thing. They may have better ideas and will chime in.

[Kelly 1,029]

After the flush with kerosene, I use cheap motor oil or ATF to flush the trans, then fill with 2 qts. gear oil.

Use the search box at the top right of the page type in trans flush you should get lots of good reading.

[varosd 1,185]

There are multiple old posts on the various methods on flushing out trannys. Seems like multiple 'fill and spill' using kerosene is the favorite way.

[Kevbo 80]

Hi much kerosene do I put in during the flush? Do I fill it all the way up to the top of dipstick rod? Or do I stay to the appropriate level on the actual dipstick??

[meadowfield 2,570]

personally I would just undo the two halves, split the tranny, check for any bits - bent shift fork, etc... prise out and change the axle seals, input and brake seals, clean with some gas, rinse, dry, rebuild and clean oil...

will cost around the same, take the same time and you will be certain the tranny is good for another 25 years!

You do not need to take every last piece apart, providing you ensure the shift select mechanism doesn't ping out, you can clean and rinse, rebuild largely in tact :D

[Kelly 1,029]

I agree with Meadowfield, but understand about 90% of the members here would not feel comfortable or have the abilities to do so.

I put about a gal. of diesel or kero in the trans, what ever is cheaper, then 2 or 3 qts of cheap like I said motor oil or ATF, then if clean fill with 2qts gear oil, what ever weight you want, it's not that big of a deal these tractors only go 7mph top speed, I use synthetic gear oil in my keepers, but it cost more, but has it's advantages.

[tunahead72 2,400]

Kevin,

Ditto to what the other guys have already said, especially about doing a search to get more ideas and reasons why people do things the way they do.

One thing I've seen mentioned in other threads, but haven't tried for myself yet, is that there's a section of the transmission that doesn't drain completely if the tractor is level. You should raise the front end of the tractor, either by jacking it up or driving it onto ramps.

[stevasaurus 22,693]

I just performed an experiment a couple of weeks ago. I had a transmission that I was going to tear into and fix anything that was wrong. I drained the oil (it was in good shape...not like yours). I turned the input pulley of the transmission in each gear by hand to determine if anything seemed amiss...it seemed OK. I then put in about a quart and a half of diesel fuel and ran the transmission on my work bench (using an electric motor with a fan belt). I ran it in each gear for about a total of 30 minutes, the speed of which I estimate to be around full throttle. I then drained the transmission and took it apart. The gears, bearings, shafts and casting came out clean as a whistle. There was still a small amount of sludge layered on the bottom of the casting...which wiped right out with a couple of rags.

Of the 7 transmissions that I have opened in the last few months, this was the only one that did not have internal problems. The others have had broken or disintegrated bearings, chipped axle gears, chipped bull gear etc. I feel that if I had used the method above on these transmissions, I would have caused more damage and would have inferred more cost. As it is, these transmissions are "averaging" around $75 to $100 apiece to fix and replace broken gears and old seals. There is no labor included in this cost, just cleaners, rags, parts and oil.

In conclusion, flushing does clean out a transmission, it also loosens everything and throws it around. It does not fix things that are broken or cracked. I still recommend splitting the transmission, if you really want to know it's condition. Only then can you guarantee yourself another 60 years of service.

Kelly is right about members not feeling comfortable tearing down one of these transmissions, but I have been able to help walk people through the process by using posts, PMs e-mail and good old fashioned phone calls. Actually, I think the hard part of doing one of these trannys, is dropping it from the rest of the tractor, the second hardest thing is the cleaning of the inside...electrolysis (if needed), soaking gears and blowing and wiping down, wire brushing, etc...not really hard to do, but may be labor intensive. Putting it back together is a piece of cake and very satisfying. Taking that first ride on the horse when you are done...priceless. :)

[JackC 617]

Apparently the horse doctors are all saying your horse needs a Kerosene enema.

MC to all.

[Kevbo 80]

Thanks everyone much appreciated!

[tunahead72 2,400]

Steve,

That's a really nice post, thanks for sharing those insghts with us all.

I'm curious about one thing, now that you've taken a bunch of these transmissions apart. What kind of symptoms tell you definitely that a particular unit needs to be taken apart and repaired, rather than just flushed and refilled?

I have two 8-speeds in my Wheel Horses, knock on wood both operating well, a little bit of gear whine but no other noises or operating problems. They both have very minor fluid seepages from various seals, not even measurable, and I'll tackle them at some point if they get worse. The fluids are both good, but I'll flush and change them both in the spring. I feel like that's enough for now, and mostly because of the labor involved, I won't be tearing either one of them apart unless they start acting badly. I'm just wondering what your definition of "acting badly" is (you know, for transmissions, not personally ).

[stevasaurus 22,693]

Ed...good question for sure. There is one thing common with all of these transmissions that I have recently worked on...they are not mine and I have no previous knowledge of them. That warrants tearing them down just because of that. The ones you are talking about are yours and you have a feel for how they are, what they have been doing and how long they have been sitting. That means a lot, but it is no guarantee. Two or three of the seven I had were locked up, two had a growling noise or grinding just turning by hand, one had water and clumps of oil draining out when I pulled the plug...one was OK (no water, oil looked OK, everything turned nicely by hand). The first transmission that I ever got into was my 702 with a # 5025 transmission. I started it up in the garage one day and was letting it warm up when I heard a ping come from the trans. I immediately shut it down and knew that I was going into this one. The #1533 bearing had come apart and the gears were shooting the ball bearings around inside. So, you just really never know. About the only good thing I will say about flushing a trans at this point is...it makes it a lot easier to clean the parts if you can slosh some kind of cleaner around inside and then drain it out. You do not keep a transmission running for 60+ years by being lucky.

[Terry M-(Moderator) 2,175]

Just a comment,

last winter, I rebuilt my first unidrive (5053) trans with the help of steve's video. First off, the job was easier than I thought it would be and the trans now runs and shifts almost perfect. It really surprised me how well it ran with just a diasemble,clean-up and bearing replacment.( all the internals appeared to be good on this trans) I really believe new bearings is what made the rebuild a sucess because i think ,if the bearings are worn things may not line-up just right and cause performance issues.

[Kevbo 80]

Just to follow up everyone I successfully flushed my tranny by using:

1 Kerosene Flush

2 ATF Flushes

Added 80W-90 and it is as clear as day!

Thanks all!

[tunahead72 2,400]

Excellent! How's it working now? You do have a good shifter boot on there now, right?

[855ownerJoel 32]

OK got me thinking that its time to check all mine again, been a while.

[Kevbo 80]

Excellent! How's it working now? You do have a good shifter boot on there now, right?

Yes I do! I ordered 4 =)

I have not got to test out the trannys too much yet since the flush. I got 2 more to do this weekend :)

[woodbird007 16]

I have a mechanic friend who also swears by using aft to flush out transmission and crankcase sludge. Great info guys.

anyone come up with a new source for the 1533 bearing?