tomtractor 71 #26 Posted November 21, 2012 Gene, How did you remove the gears? Did you break them with a hammer? Or take the whole motor apart? Did you need many new gaskets. Any tips? Tom Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3609horse 27 #27 Posted November 22, 2012 Tom, I removed the pan then took out the the two snap rings and yes I used a hammer and chisel and broke the thin part of the gears, all it took was one shot and they broke nice and clean. Removed the thicker halves and made a new gasket put it together and it runs great. Its not that bad to do, I think the hardest part was taking off the upper snap ring off, but not that bad I'm just bad with them to begin with, lol. I took a picture of the gears after they were out so you can see, They were missing needle bearings and one had worn teeth, I think I got it out just in time. Good luck with yours. Gene,, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Road-Track 39 #28 Posted November 22, 2012 Great find, close call What did the oil pan look like with all that metal? I am putting my K321 back together this weekend and the balance gears will be left out for sure. (they look OK, but don't want to push it) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3609horse 27 #29 Posted November 22, 2012 The oil in the bottom was a little metalic but no chunks. I will run this new oil for a bit then change it again just to make sure all the metal is out. Good luck with yours, I think leaving the gears out is a good idea. I picked up a 14hp awhile ago with the same noise and I got it before it was scraped so now I know what it could be I will open it up a see, my son is asking if he can put it on his Raider 10 that we just swapped in a new motor. I will have to see about that tho. Good luck and thanks to all, its nice to be able to go somewhere and get answers without judgement or attitudes , this is a great site with great people, Happy Holiday to all Gene.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
groundhog47 347 #30 Posted November 23, 2012 Tom, I removed the pan then took out the the two snap rings and yes I used a hammer and chisel and broke the thin part of the gears, all it took was one shot and they broke nice and clean. Removed the thicker halves and made a new gasket put it together and it runs great. Its not that bad to do, I think the hardest part was taking off the upper snap ring off, but not that bad I'm just bad with them to begin with, lol. I took a picture of the gears after they were out so you can see, They were missing needle bearings and one had worn teeth, I think I got it out just in time. Good luck with yours. Gene,, Hey Gene, do appreciate this pic. (similar problem not yet finished investigatin'). Didn't quite understand how to break a gear (cast iorn I guess). Doesn't appear so difficult now, Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wheel-N-It 2,969 #31 Posted November 23, 2012 Tom, it would have been alot less work for you to have reset the point gap to see if the noise would lessen. Most troubleshooting is performed easier using the old divide and conquer method. Resetting the point gap may have not sounded like the way to begin, but doing this retards the ignition timing, which takes alot of stress off extra clearances in the rod, crank, piston, and wristpin during rotation. Less stress equals less noise. So if you retard the timing and the noise lessens or goes away, then you know the problem is in the crank, rod, piston, wrist pin area without disassembling the engine. It may then be in the balance gears, but you will then know where it is not. This is a community, and I'm not trying to sound like a Kohler engine Guru ( I am certainly not that ). I'm just trying to help you and the other members here learn some of the skills I have aquired along the way in an effort to take alot of unnecessary work out of what we do in our spare time here. Another thing I have learned is less unnecessary work equals more time for necessary fun Van 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomtractor 71 #32 Posted November 25, 2012 Van, Thanks for your info. I will try Monday... First Tighten head bolts then... 1) Check to see what the old points are presently set at with a feeler gage 2) Replace with new points, set at .015 3) Run and see it noise has gone away/reduced 4) Reset points to .020 4) Run and see if noise has gone away/reduced 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wheel-N-It 2,969 #33 Posted November 26, 2012 Sorry I missed your post yesterday. Tom I don't remembr if you installed a new plug or not. This is what happened to me Saturday. To make a long story short, I learned a spark plug can make an engine knock. I was running both generators for a few hours when (after the first hour) all of a sudden my oldest generator started knocking loudly. It being a 10hp Tecky instantly made me think of Craig (LOL). My mechanical Whiz good friend Mark was here and suggested I inspect the spark plug. I did, and to me it looked ok, but to Marks trained eye there were carbon deposits down in the recesses around the insulator he said would heat up and cause an engine to knock like that. We did not install a new plug, instead Mark used an old school spark plug cleaning tool I have and scraped carbon deposits for about 10 minutes until he was satisfied the plug was clean. We reinstalled the plug, started the engine, the knocking was completely gone, and it ran smooth as silk for another 2 hours. So after what I learned Saturday, I recommend you have a new spark plug installed when you reset the points today. Let me know how things turn out for you today. I am off work and will be checking in on your progress. I hope everything goes well for you. Van Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomtractor 71 #34 Posted November 26, 2012 The old points were set just over .020 when I opened it up. I set the old points at .015. The kohler ran rough. I needed to keep the choke on slightly - for it to not stall. The noise is slight. I can't say it is less than before - but maybe? Next I will set a new set of points at .020 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wheel-N-It 2,969 #35 Posted November 26, 2012 Thank you for the PM Tom. Do you know how many hours are on your engine? Do you know if it has ever run low on oil? It may be time for you to ask an experienced Kohler mechanic to listen to your engine while it is running. I have an old K321 that knocks too, so don't feel like the Lone Ranger. Fortunately I don't run it much, and I keep the points at .015 to lessen the noise. OK let me ask you this; Does the knock go away or quiet way down when you are running under a load climbing a hill??? If so then you probably have a loose rod. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3609horse 27 #36 Posted December 4, 2012 The old points were set just over .020 when I opened it up. I set the old points at .015. The kohler ran rough. I needed to keep the choke on slightly - for it to not stall. The noise is slight. I can't say it is less than before - but maybe? Next I will set a new set of points at .020 Did you find the problem yet with your motor? I finally got my all hooked up and running today, I had painted it all since it was apart, and was wondering how you were coming along with yours. Hopefully your up and running also. Good luck, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomtractor 71 #37 Posted December 4, 2012 I have so far... Replaced points (Tried at .015 and .020), cleaned head of carbon, double checked spark plug gap. The sound is still there. I maybe getting to the point of living with it. Although I have purchased a different K321 motor just in case. To be honest I am very shy about removing the motor. I have a exceptional track record of creating more problems that I solve when I work on motors. I am trying to upload a video of the motor running. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wheel-N-It 2,969 #38 Posted December 4, 2012 OK Tom, I hope you get the video on here. You will probably have someone jump right in with the answer you need who know the sound well. The other thing I think you need to check is drive your tractor up a smooth hill, say at least 50 yards. Keep the transmission in the highest gear and have a slight load on the engine. See if the sound goes away then, and get back to us. I am glad you are still working on the problem and have not given up. Also I am glad to hear you bought another engine. Its always good to have a spare or two laying around for just in case. Don't be shy about working on these engines. Its part of the fun, and its all just nuts and bolts Van Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomtractor 71 #39 Posted December 6, 2012 Well now after replacing all said parts the head blows exhaust/oil. I am guessing i screwed up the tension on the head bolts and warped the head. Or some other bone head move which i haven't found that i created. All joking aside I am going to tighten the head bolts again in the order they need. Run it. If that didn't work I will remove head, inspect gasket, and resurface head if it is warped. Using the piece of glass method. Purchase new head gasket. Go to Sunday church. Then restart the motor. It may have a slight ticking which I can live with. What i can't live with is exhaust blowing at me. Note to anyone in the future - don't listen to me for motor repair advise. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wheel-N-It 2,969 #40 Posted December 7, 2012 Keep us posted on your progress Tom :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
