Which twin should I consider?

[Chevydave 25]

I have a 416-8 with the Honda GX-670.

The first unit had a internal problem but Honda warranteed it.

It has been in the unit for two years and worked very hard.

I mow two acres twice a week with it and snow blow in NE Ohio.

I am a stickler for maintenance, I have never ran anything in it but Royal Purple with the Honda oil filter.

After this long I am comfortable recommending it as a replacement engine.

Good Luck with whatever you choose.

[JackC 617]

My first choice would still be the ONAN and I would take exceptionally good care of it.

You could buy a low hour 520H with no attachments for less than the cost of installing a new V twin.

Maybe even put an oil cooler on it.

I always look forward to riding my 520HC and my 416H.

My second choice would be to soup up my K341 so that it sounds and performs like a single cylinder Harley.

That may even sound better than the ONAN.

Lets face it, having a neat sounding engine adds some pleasure to the work that needs to get done.

But, to each his own.

[Hydro 131]

Jack, Chevy Dave,Mark and others thanks for the advice, I do not use ethanol. I stopped that a couple of years ago. I use only high test in my small engines. I do have to say there was nothing like the sound of an Onan at work or just started cold listening to it idle with little or no choke. Music to anyone's ear. I used to love to have the wife cut for awhile, stand back and listen to the 416 when it would go under a load. Yep, nothing like that sound.

Up here they are very expensive to repair, lots of people don't want to work on them, parts are getting harder to get and even the simplist carburetor work is expensive. I thought I took real good care of the last one. We don't have the Kelly's around here to keep us running so that's the reason plus the issues I had with my last one is why I'm moving on.

I have requested a price on a 23 Kohler from a local dealer so I'm not sure what I would be into yet. I don't want to do anything to my 16. It has less than 400 hours on it and it's original. I had that checked out when I bought it. We took the head off to remove the carbon and it mics out as original. For the entire summer thus far I have added a half a pint of oil. Last winter although I did not use it much it did not use any oil. I will probably put it back into my 416-8 just as it is.

I really do appreciate everyone's point of view & I thought about the cost of a 520 as compared to a new engine. I would likely have to go south to get a low hour unit if available and sometimes what you find when you get there is not what you were told before you went!

Any other comments are welcome. Thanks

[can whlvr 993]

i was not aware of the twin honda myth,my local rental shop has many twins on compressors,large power washers and they tell me they are great engines,and i have known these people for 30 years,so they wont lie to me,but they take care of their stuff as they have about 6 full time mechanics

[JackC 617]

Not intending to beat a dead horse here but here is a ready to go attachment for a wheel horse two stage snow blower that comes complete with a seat and hub caps. If I did not have so many horses already I would consider it.

Edit: Link removed due to violation of board rules

[Brian K WheelHorse 28]

Not intending to beat a dead horse here but here is a ready to go attachment for a wheel horse two stage snow blower that comes complete with a seat and hub caps. If I did not have so many horses already I would consider it.

Wow - that's a clean looking 520. I paid that much fro mine and had to throw a few new parts on it. They run like a dream though. If I knew how nice the 520H tractors were I woulda got one sooner.

[Hydro 131]

I've spent 3 days up here waiting for a price on a 23 Kohler

I can't remember (old age I guess) but I just saw a post here recently regarding tach's and there was a link for a high performance cam for a 16 Kohler. Can somebody link me up and would it make that much difference? It was something like $79.00.

I was looking for another set of Vredesteins front tires too. Can't find them on line in :flags-canada:

[JackC 617]

Kirk Engines sells a high performance cam shaft. You may need to scroll down to find it.

i think you send one in and they regrind it.

http://www.kirkengines.com/index.php#PerformanceCamshaft

Brian Miller has an interesting site in case you have not checked it out.

He apparently has gotten 49 hp out of a Kohler 16.

I have a C-165 8 speed with a Kohler 16 with over a 1,000 hours on it that runs great but burns oil and I have thought about having it overhauled and souped up to some extent. I would love to send him the engine and have him go through it and pump it up to about 25 hp and still have it usable for a garden tractor application.

http://gardentractorpullingtips.com/index.htm

[Hydro 131]

I read up on that last fall. I had considered it but a small engine mechanic who had been in the business for about 30 years talked me out of it, not saying he was right, I just didn't do it.

[AMC RULES 37,130]

So...what were some of his drawbacks from having one done up Gary?

[markjs 2]

The Kohler Command sounds like a good choice especially the fuel injected version which would eliminate the carburetor problems with the fuels containing ethanol.

Except for the strong possibility that 10 or 15 years from now you could run in to problems with the electronics involved for the fuel system, and of course all the special FI parts will be "obsolete." Kawasaki had troubles with their EFI systems when the ethanol fuels first started hitting the market, so no fuel system is totally immune to problems in the future. Handa is still sticking it out with carbs.

-Mark-

Until the gd EPA regulates them out of existence too.

[Hydro 131]

Mainly he is just old school with the idea that engines are designed the way they are for a purpose. If I sent it away and had a problem...shortened life span... nothing really specific ....just his opinion Craig. He does have an excellent reputation in our area so I just followed his advice. He's not a dealer, operates from his home and worked for a John Deere dealership for years and years. Given it was a low hour 19 88 he suggested re-settiing the valves, he removed the carbon from the head, put in a new carb kit, adjusted the governor and it's been thumping away ever since. I've put about 50 hours on it, it runs out really well with the 48" deck and Matt's motion pedal. Not as smooth obviously as my Onan was but I have confidence in it. I just don't want to kill it on the snowblower. It's the first pass as I said earlier.

Just got a price up here for a 23 Kohler $2035.00 plus taxes of 13%. Wasn't thinking it would be that much.

[baerpath 517]

The one we used was a 20hp model onto a 312.

Problem with taking a "pulling engine" to use on a mower is all the work to get that 30hp out of it makes it real easy to over heat and blow up. Your looking at head work, offset boring, cam change, carb work etc. Worked pullers usually only run for short periods at full speed and then get shut off

Duane

Not a great picture but shows the engine in it

[Hydro 131]

Thanks for the photo and the advice Duane.

[can whlvr 993]

i was thinking it would be more garry,in about 1992 when i blew up my 8 hp magnum they wanted 1800.00,thats when i shifted to a honda

[AmalgamousProxy 2]

Will the transmission hold up to a 20 hp engine? I was wondering once my kohler K241AS gives up the ghost I was considering swapping it out for a 10-20 hp direct injected twin v diesel (they make lots of torque) or I'll take it out before it dies just for posterity...

[JackC 617]

Should not be a problem. The 8 speeds are considered bullet proof and are used in most pullers. Wheel Horse did make a 520- 8 speed.

[Hydro 131]

I've been looking on the net for engine pricing and there are some good deals on the Vanguards. I see the Kohlers are more expensive at least from what I have found.

Does anybody know where the Kohler Commands are made?

What's involved to add a sleeve to change up from a 1" crank to an 1 1/8"?

I've owned 4 Subaru Outbacks and ran the old Polaris Colts with the Fujji engines "Star". Does anybody have any experience with the new Subaru Robin? I know Fujji Heavy Industries makes a great machine.

Thanks again guys.

[Callen 64]

Hydro,

If you go with the vangard, I would look for a drive pulley and inner sleeve from a Briggs Twin powered Horse.

[Wishin4a416 2,191]

I was looking around last evening and found this sight. It shows some with 1 1/8'' shaft if its what you need. On page 2.

[Hydro 131]

"Wishin", your link did not come up. Can you try it again? I have seen them with the 1 1/8 shaft diameter but I am also seeing better deals on other Vnaguards and makes that have the 1 inch diameter so just trying to keep my options open for the best deal. Then I have to figure out shipping or coming across to pick it up.

[Wishin4a416 2,191]

"Wishin", your link did not come up. Can you try it again? I have seen them with the 1 1/8 shaft diameter but I am also seeing better deals on other Vnaguards and makes that have the 1 inch diameter so just trying to keep my options open for the best deal. Then I have to figure out shipping or coming across to pick it up.

http://www.brandnewengines.com/briggshorizontalshaft.aspx?page=2

[can whlvr 993]

pretty sad how we get gouged up here,just one thing to remeber about diatance buying,make sure your warranty will be covered up here if you get it in the states,ive seen this with some things and the buyer is told to take it where they bought it when warranty is needed,hopefully you wont need it but ya never know,and to spend a few grand it something that needs to be considered,may be you need a smaller blower on the 14 and get a few passes done before the big 2 stage comes out,haha,just giving you a need for 2 tractors

[Hydro 131]

Hydro,

If you go with the vangard, I would look for a drive pulley and inner sleeve from a Briggs Twin powered Horse.

Thanks for the advice, problem is we don't have the availability of very many used parts. It would likely be esier just to get a Vanguard with a 1 1/8 crank and shorten it if I have to.

[Hydro 131]

I'm thinking I will go for a Robin Subaru 25HP. I am familiar with the Robin, love Subarus and they are now bringing out a 5 year warranty. Second choice Vanguard 23HP.

For those members who have swaped out engines before I am curious what you created to insure proper alignment. I'm thinking of making some type of simple jig that I can attach to the frame, existing bolt holes, foot pegs whatever so as to bring the pto to the correct position.