Synthetic oils versus petroleum oils for the horses

[JackC 617]

Tankman started a thread on the Engines Forum regarding a "Hot 14 hp Kohler". The use of laser heat sensors was suggested to measure engine operating temperature. Related to engine operating temperature some people have reported that the oil they use affects engine operating temperature. I use straight 30W conventional petroleum oils in my older Kohlers because it seems to last longer. I think I will switch to all synthetics based on what Brian Miller had to say after I emailed the question to him. I felt the information had sufficient general interest to start a new thread.

Hi Jack. Full synthetic oils provide maximum protection, cooler operating temperatures, & longer engine life. No petroleum oils can match the performance of full synthetic oils. Unlike petroleum oils, full synthetic oils don't get hot. It stays the same temperature regardless of engine operating temperature. A race car mechanic once told me on different length tracks, they have to swap out the ring & pinion gears to be competitive against other race cars. After running on the track in a race, when they changed the gears & when they used petroleum gear oil, they had to wear gloves to handle the hot gears. Then they switched to full synthetic gear oil, and after running on the track in a race, and when they changed out the gears, they didn't need to wear gloves because the gears & oil was just as cool as the day they installed it.

Brian Miller

In a message dated 9/12/2012 4:13:50 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jackcmail@prodigy.net writes:

Brian,

Lower friction results in lower heat and wear and longer engine life.

Have you done any studies to see which oils result in the lowest engine operating temperatures?

Do you have any recommendations as to which oils are best for single and twin cylinder air cooled engines?

Thanks,

Jack

[Rooster 192]

There are major differences in synthetic oils. As a matter of fact many oils marketed as " fully Synthetic" in the USA do not meet ISO standards and are not allowed to be marketed in Europe as Synthetics.

When I worked for a super charger manufacturer they filled all their units with Royal Purple from the factory. Testing had showed it the best at the time. In my race engines i use it exclusively and have seen a noticeable change in engine life,reliability and performance over cheaper oils. in 4 years of racing it I have had not a single oil related failure or issue!

[Hydro 131]

....okay I have used synthetic in the past but use 30 wt for summer and 5W 30 for winter. Where does that leave me for winter use? I can put my hand on my engine in the winter after 20 minutes of blowing snow. It does not get hot in cold blowing conditions. Is there an advantage in synthetic in these situations? My engine is a 16 Hp Kohler single.

[JackC 617]

Never heard of Royal Purple but it sounds impressive.

check out the video on

HPS HIGH FILM STRENGTH STREET MOTOR OIL

http://royalpurpleco...treet-motor-oil

[JackC 617]

OK, forget Mobile 1 synthetic, especially in my twin cylinder ONANs, I am switching to Royal Purple. Thanks Rooster.

[Tankman 3,525]

On the subject "synthetic oils", 80w90 synthetic gear lube.

I knew a race driver, one race per rear. After switching to synthetic 80w90 gear lube, three races per rear.

I also know UPS has a data base, maintenance thousands of delivery trucks.

UPS uses 80w90 synthetic gear lube in all their trucks.

Comments?

[MarkPalmer 81]

One thing to keep in mind is that full synthetic oil has a much greater tendency for leakage in older engines, especially if the seals are not in the greatest of shape. I can understand the pulling engine thing, or if you are running a plow or ? under really heavy load but under normal use the Kohler K series engines don't (or shouldn't) run particulary hot, its not a high RPM or high performance engine. Best bet I have found is to run straight 30W oil with a little bit (1/4 bottle) of STP oil treatment. The ZDDP will do a lot more for longevity in loose toleranced engines with solid tappets than synthetic oil will, and the change will cost you less than half the money with no worries about leaks. ZDDP was an additive that was in regular "dinosaur" motor oil through all the production years of the K series engine until about 10 years ago when it was removed for environmental reasons.

-Mark-

[KATO 115]

I Have used AMSOIL synthetic in everything i own . Including their transmission fluid and many of their other

products for about 18 years now. Check out their web site, it is full of info about oil testing, viscosity breakdown and on and on

they even post test results from their testing ,even if somebody elses oil is better in one area. not many companies post any info let alone test results.Their oil is definitely one of the best out there. It does everyting they say it does.

KEN

[Tankman 3,525]

In the USMC Motor Pool, mid 60's, everything used Texaco 30 weight.

[520HC 208]

I find it very hard to believe that oil will stay the same temperature, regardless of the engine operating temperature. Brian Miller will have to prove that to me.

[JackC 617]

"oil will stay the same temperature, regardless of the engine operating temperature"

Probably a misstatement.

There is no way that the oil temperature can stay the same with a rise in engine operating temperature.

Friction creates heat and the better the oil reduces friction the less heat there will be and the less wear on engine components.

Based on hands on experience and friction tests, the synthetics are significantly better at reducing friction and heat.

The lubrication used to reduce friction and heat in the ONAN twins where the back cylinder is in a tight spot on WH tractors is particularly important.

For my 520HC and 416H, I plan on switching from Mobile 1 to Amsoil or Royal Purple. Some tractor brands even put oil coolers on the ONANs.

For my older Kohlers (C-165 and C-81), I will stick with 30W petroleum and add STP.

Thanks for all the good info provided here.

[Rooster 192]

Synthetics also transfer heat better than Dino oils, thus maintaining a cooler temperature.

I plan on adding an oil temp on my next engine and doing some testing with different oils to see just which ones run coolest.

[specialwheelhorse 174]

Hey Rooster I use Royal Purple gear oil in nearly all my trany's

Cost a few but so does gears and bearings.

Won't harm bronze.

The Military uses RP for nearly everything.

[boovuc 1,090]

If you wanted to use a 30w synthetic, Royal Purple is about the only manufacturer out there with a straight weight oil. (There are more but without a special order, RP was about it).

And the costs were as salty and the bottom of the dead sea.

I too question Brian's statement as it was stated earlier in this thread. Fluid dynamics dictate that the oil in that engine, regardless of what that oil might be, has to be transferring a majority of heat. If you have any synthetic in an engine, you mow for an hour and then you shut off the engine, you can't tell me that the oil pan of said engine is "cool". There is some kind of miss-perception in his statement as it was written. If that was the case, any engine, automotive, industrial or lawn and garden would be running on full to half choke and or have their respective computers altering the fuel mixes and popping up all kinds of error codes.

I guess though I live in Pennsylvania, I'm having a Missouri moment. Show me! :)

[Rooster 192]

Hey Rooster I use Royal Purple gear oil in nearly all my trany's

Cost a few but so does gears and bearings.

Won't harm bronze.

The Military uses RP for nearly everything.

And when you consider the cost of some of the bearings and irreplacability of some of the other parts, it doesn't cost much at all ;)

[Kelly 1,035]

I have used Mobil 1 in all my car engines for years, mainly started in my race cars, I know it is probably over kill but I change the oil in the race car after no more than 3 race nights, I think oil is cheap compared to building a new engine, well with all that being said last fri. night I did a fun night race at a local track we do lots of destruction races and one was the trailer race, we try to ripe trailers off other cars or trucks, I hit a trailer in the middle of the figure 8 I got it harder than I had planned and drove through the trailer blowing it to pieces and the jet ski that was on it, I didn't know at the time I punched a hole in the radiator even though I have very heavy duty guards in place to keep from doing so, I ran the car like I always do HARD twisting near 7000 rpms down the straight aways, I was concentrating on driving not so much the car because it ran great, but at the end when I was driving to the pits I noticed the temp gauge was broken, the needle had snapped off from trying to go past the 300 deg mark, I also noticed it ran ruffer at low speeds I shut the switches off to kill the engine, it was so hot it dieseled on, running by the hot engine firing the fuel, with no spark, I figured the engine would seize up after it shut off being so hot, well it shut down, I let it set about 10 min. and it fired right up with no problem, and drove on the trailer, next morning it runs just as it always had, I pulled the dip stick to see clean oil, if it was dino oil, it would have been cooked, I'M a FIRM believer in Mobil 1 or your fav. brand of synthetic oil.

[Jim_M 179]

I run Valvoline full synthetic racing oil in my pulling engines. It has the anti wear additives for flat tappet camshafts. But those engines do not run long enough to get really hot and I change the oil after every 4 runs.

Someone mentioned an oil temperature gauge on a tractor. My 520xi has a factory oil temperature gauge. It isn't marked in degrees, it's marked in 3 ranges, green, yellow and red.

I have always run Shell Rotella straight 30W in all of my worker Wheel Horses, 2 of them are diesels so I just use it in all of them so I don't have to have a bunch of different kinds of oil sitting around.

The Kohler Command in the 520xi calls for 10W30, I didn't have any Rotella 10W30 and since I have always liked Mobil 1, I decided to run 10W30 Mobil 1 in it this spring. I was about halfway through mowing when I noticed the the temperature gauge was running fairly high. Before I could finish mowing the temperature gauge was touching the yellow range so I shut it off and let it cool down. I thought maybe the cooling fins were clogged or something so I took the tins off and cleaned everything up then finished mowing. The next week I watched the gauge closely and at about the same amount of time mowing the gauge was at the yellow again. I shut it off and pulled the dipstick and the oil was as thin as water, it ran right off the dipstick. I went out and bought a new filter and some 10W30 Rotella and changed oil. The Rotella has been in there ever since, and the only time it's gone over halfway in the green range was on a day when the temperature was 95 degrees in the shade and even then it was only slightly higher than it normally is.

I'm not saying Mobil 1 isn't good oil, I'm just saying my air cooled engine didn't like it one bit. I think it's better suited for a water cooled engine, it seems to thin badly at the higher operating temperatures of an air cooled engine. The Rotella seems to maintain it's viscosity much better in the high operating temperatures of an air cooled engine.

[pfrederi 19,294]

Father bought my L-107 in 1967. it has had its rear end fluid changed maybe 3 times. still using 40 weight standard oil. No leaks and she shifts just fine. Keep the water out and unless you are mowing yards for a living synthetics are an awfully pricey way to feel good.

[mrc 1,020]

hi guys, besides wh tractors and old chevy trucks i have 2 harleys. i started using synthetic oil in the harleys many years ago. harleys, like our wh tractors are air cooled engines. however our wh's have an external flywheel with an engine shroud that pushes air across the cylinder fins to keep it cool. thus our wh's can sit stationary for long periods and run just fine. the harley's rely on the bike moving to provide air flow cooling. there have been a few times where i have been in bumper to bumper traffic. i have a engine oil temp guage and synthetic oil definitely gets VERY HOT!!!! the benefit is synthetic oil will not burn or lose viscosity at these higher temps. regular petro oil will break down at much lower temps. i use regular oil in my wh's because they just don't see extreme duty like the harley does. regards. mike in mass.

[Jim_M 179]

I use Valvoline V twin full synthetic in my Harley and it holds it's viscosity very well, but it's 20W50 so I would expect it to.

[Hydro 131]

I just bought 2013 Subaru Outback. 2.5 L boxer. It's calling for 0W-20 year round! I could not believe it. Discussed it with the dealer. They say for improved mileage and to provide instant oil pressure for cam chain tensioners. Granted it's synthetic but I can't believe how thin it is.

[HorseFixer 2,013]

I Have used AMSOIL synthetic in everything i own . Including their transmission fluid and many of their other

products for about 18 years now. Check out their web site, it is full of info about oil testing, viscosity breakdown and on and on

they even post test results from their testing ,even if somebody elses oil is better in one area. not many companies post any info let alone test results.Their oil is definitely one of the best out there. It does everyting they say it does.

KEN

:eusa-whistle: