B-80 value?

[freeisforme 3]

First post, new here, and new to Wheel Horse machines.

I've owned many different tractors over the years but never a Wheel Horse.

I have the chance to pickup a 1977 B-80 with a new 14hp Kohler engine from a neighbor. He's asking $400 for it.

The motor was new last year, its not been run more than a dozen times since he had it installed.

It originally had an 8hp which according to him was worn out. He gave me the old motor last year, its been running fine for me

on a log splitter. No clue why he thought it was worn out, it don't use oil, it starts easily and has good compression.

The machine isn't a show piece, its well used but fully functional, the deck has new blades and is quiet, no odd bearing noises. The seat is new, not original but it works, and the tires all hold air. I believe the tires are original. They have good tread. (He only used it to cut a lawn that's about 60x50' total. It even still has hubcaps on it. It is missing its headlight panel up front and the hood latch is missing, but it seems every one I've looked at over the years was missing the hood latch mechanism and many had home made filler panels where the headlights should be.

Its got an 8 speed transmission, there's some paint loss on the fender pan under the seat and some rust, and the paint overall is faded.

He no longer cuts his own lawn, he hired a service and the tractor has sat since last year.

My first thoughts were that I can use that 14hp engine on my log splitter and put the tractor back to original.

I don't need another tractor, but it wouldn't hurt to have a spare mower around.

Is $400 a fair price for one of these? ( I tried offering him $300 but he won't budge, he's got over $300 in the new motor, which he bought from the local dealer that installed it). I'm not sure if its a brand new motor or a rebuild, but to me it looks like they installed a new long block, and installed a used oil pan to match this application, and a used intake. The tin is new, the carb is new, the flywheel is new, but the clutch and pulleys are from another machine. My guess is they converted a non WH engine to fit. The used parts are red, the new engine is still all black. It barely fits under the hood.

He had listed it in the paper for a while for $500, then $450 but didn't get a single serious reply.

I tried asking someone at a local shop where they used to sell these and was told that the B-80 was a small machine and they weren't very useful. It don't look all that small to me? Its got 5 lug rear wheels, 23-8.50x12 rear tires and 16-650x8 front tires.

My only concern is it lacks any sort of rear hitch, no sleeve hitch, no rear lift. Only a small tab to pull a wagon with.

[Ken B 3,164]

Pictures would really help but it sounds like a pretty fair deal to me. The motor alone is worth that. I think 14 hp on a log splitter is overkill myself.

[rmaynard 15,519]

:WRS: You said it has a 14 hp engine on it now. What model is the engine? Try and get the model and spec number. As far as the overall tractor, a B-80 is one of the best little guys around. The original engine had more than enough power for most applications. The hitch that is on it is standard. You can get a slot hitch. I've seen many on eBay, and we have vendors on here that probably have a few used ones too. There should be a tube installed over the top of the transmission that a cable will run through to operate the slot hitch. Biggest problem with most hitches is the getting the mounting pin out if it is rusted.

The transmission (103907) is one of the toughest ones made.

Escutcheon panels for the front are still available from Toro, and you should be able to easily find a hood latch mechanism from one of our vendors or eBay.

If it were me, and if the tractor was complete with the original engine. I would say is worth around $250 (depending on the condition). Pictures would help.

The 14 HP engine mixes everything up.

[bowtiebutler956 650]

I love my B-80, and its been converted to a K301 12hp Kohler. They are a tough little garden tractor, and are very useful. Post some pics if you can, and we'll try to help with your decision. If it has the K321 14hp Kohler, then it has a great engine. One more thing , and here some pics of my B-80.

Matt :flags-texas:

[chesbaycruiser 83]

First post, new here, and new to Wheel Horse machines.

Welcome to Red Square!

I have the chance to pickup a 1977 B-80 with a new 14hp Kohler engine from a neighbor. He's asking $400 for it. The motor was new last year, its not been run more than a dozen times since he had it installed. It originally had an 8hp which according to him was worn out. He gave me the old motor last year...

IMO, the "new" motor alone puts this price squarely in the "go for it" range. (Not to mention the previously acquired K181!)

The machine isn't a show piece, its well used but fully functional, the deck has new blades and is quiet, no odd bearing noises. The seat is new, not original but it works, and the tires all hold air. I believe the tires are original. They have good tread. (He only used it to cut a lawn that's about 60x50' total. It even still has hubcaps on it. It is missing its headlight panel up front and the hood latch is missing, but it seems every one I've looked at over the years was missing the hood latch mechanism and many had home made filler panels where the headlights should be.

I'm guessing this is the 36" deck? In my experience, they cut great. Hood latches can be found fairly easily and the headlight issue is simply a sheet metal fix, or even better, add the headlights!

Its got an 8 speed transmission, there's some paint loss on the fender pan under the seat and some rust, and the paint overall is faded.

My 75 B-80 has the 4-Speed (I think most do), which I have NO complaints about, but with the 8-Speed, all the better! As to the cosmetics...again, an easy fix with a little time and elbow grease. (OK...and $'s)

Is $400 a fair price for one of these? ( I tried offering him $300 but he won't budge, he's got over $300 in the new motor, which he bought from the local dealer that installed it). I'm not sure if its a brand new motor or a rebuild, but to me it looks like they installed a new long block, and installed a used oil pan to match this application, and a used intake. The tin is new, the carb is new, the flywheel is new, but the clutch and pulleys are from another machine. My guess is they converted a non WH engine to fit. The used parts are red, the new engine is still all black. It barely fits under the hood. He had listed it in the paper for a while for $500, then $450 but didn't get a single serious reply.

You'll likely get a lot of opinions about that. My experience tells me that has a lot to do with geography. Around here, I'd say if you picked up a solid, original B-80 for $250 you got a great deal, and if you paid $450 you would be at about the top of the "fair price" range. Based on everything you've said ("new motor, good deck, 8-speed, and not to mention the K181 you already got from him) I'd say it's easily a fair deal, although the "negotiator" in me would still have to start off with "I'm a buyer today at $350" just to see what happens!

I tried asking someone at a local shop where they used to sell these and was told that the B-80 was a small machine and they weren't very useful.

That is complete load of cr*p. These threads are chock full of impressive stories of what the venerable B-80 can do!

[freeisforme 3]

Its got the K321, the motor is mostly black with some red and blue parts on it. It looks to me like it must have been either a general replacement engine or a long block that they converted to use in this tractor. It runs perfect, no issues running wise. There's a few things that I'd change or fix, like the throttle cable being too short, its hanging across the front of the motor, I'd also paint it to match the tractor. The whole thing would need to be painted to make it look decent again.

I don't have any pics, I'll see if he's got any or else I take a few over the weekend. He's got it covered with a tarp out back behind a shed now, its all but buried.

I did look around to see what others were selling for around here but couldn't find anything like it. I find older models, and several newer black hood models, and Toro models but not many from the 70's for some reason.

Where in the WH line up was the B-80? From the few people I talked to it sounds like it was a low end lawn tractor, but from what I see its built more like a garden tractor. I keep getting remarks about it being a smaller model? Did they build a larger tractor? I also have a John Deere 112, the B-80 and that are about the same size, and other than motor their pretty similar.

I can't see it being worth only $250 or so, there's no doubt he's got far more than that in the motor. I called one local small engine shop here and they wanted $500 for a rebuilt long block.They had a 12hp ready to go on the shelf, but no 14hp motors. I was shocked when he said he could get me a brand new K181 8hp, but the price was $1400. There's also a few single cylinder Kohler motors on CL listed as rebuilt in the $300 to $600 range.

I also just sold a used Kohler Magnum 18hp from a Snapper tractor for $800. It wasn't up for more than an hour before it sold.

I suppose the motor is worth far more than the machine itself is.

Another option came up while talking to him this morning, he'll sell the tractor minus the engine for $150.

Keep in mind that I have the original engine already. I can put any motor on my log splitter.

I have an 8hp Briggs that can take the place of the Kohler on my log splitter if I went that way.

The splitter don't need more power, I was just thinking that the tractor would be better off with its original engine.

I have other motors I can use on my log splitter. I only used the K181 since it was already running and ready to use.

I've also got a few Kohler twins here, even another MT-18, but I doubt that would even fit.

I didn't measure the deck, it may well be 36" but it seemed wider than that. It extends out past the rear wheels on each side by about 4 inches or so but I do know it fits in the bed of his full size Chevy p/u.

[rmaynard 15,519]

The B-80 is definitely NOT a low end lawn tractor. Other than the 8 hp engine and lack of headlights, it is the same tractor as the C-160 which was one of the toughest tractors built. When I said that I would offer $250.00, that was based on it being an original B-80 with the 8 hp engine and without seeing any pictures.

Last summer, I missed out a deal on a nice 1977 B-100 (10hp model) for $250.00.

With the K321, the value would be more, but I still would not pay more than $400.00 with mower deck.

[JimD 3,345]

The B-80 is definitely NOT a low end lawn tractor. Other than the 8 hp engine and lack of headlights, it is the same tractor as the C-160 which was one of the toughest tractors built. When I said that I would offer $250.00, that was based on it being an original B-80 with the 8 hp engine and without seeing any pictures.

Last summer, I missed out a deal on a nice 1977 B-100 (10hp model) for $250.00.

With the K321, the value would be more, but I still would not pay more than $400.00 with mower deck.

Well, being that is what the guy is asking, you're saying you'd now buy it. Dang Bob, make up yer mind will ya?

I'd say it's a steal for the money. I have one and it's definitely not a low end lawn tractor. Snap it up before someone else does. :thumbs:

[KC9KAS 4,741]

You have the origional engine, and you can get the whole tractor for $400...I'd say try to bargan...if he won't budge, $400 is still a really good deal. Put the 8hp back in and restore it. Save the 14 hp for another deal in the future.

[bowtiebutler956 650]

The B-80 is definitely NOT a low end lawn tractor. Other than the 8 hp engine and lack of headlights, it is the same tractor as the C-160 which was one of the toughest tractors built. When I said that I would offer $250.00, that was based on it being an original B-80 with the 8 hp engine and without seeing any pictures.

Last summer, I missed out a deal on a nice 1977 B-100 (10hp model) for $250.00.

With the K321, the value would be more, but I still would not pay more than $400.00 with mower deck.

Well, being that is what the guy is asking, you're saying you'd now buy it. Dang Bob, make up yer mind will ya?

I'd say it's a steal for the money. I have one and it's definitely not a low end lawn tractor. Snap it up before someone else does.

I'm with Jim on this, the B-80 is a tough machine, and with a K321, and an 8 speed, that makes it a serious power house!

Matt :flags-texas:

[varosd 1,185]

Kohler 14hp? go for it! my B-80 rocks!

[rmaynard 15,519]

Just to clarify my last remarks, a 1977 B-80 with the original K181 engine, in fair condition, would be worth about $250 to me. However, with a K321, I don't think that $400 would be out of line, but I would hesitate to pay more.

[freeisforme 3]

I'd love to get the thing for $200 or $250 but he won't budge, when I tried again this evening he dragged out all his receipts from the engine swap. Apparently he bought a 12hp engine to rebuild for it, then found the 14hp new in the box at some dealer. The odd parts I see on the motor are off the motor he bought, which he said was painted aqua blue. The dealer found him the shroud and other cooling tin, plus a new carburetor. They rocked him $75 for the tin, $599 for the engine, and $145 for the carb.

Then another $285 in labor. They also replaced both belts, three blades, and the ignition switch which was marked 'used'.

He was mad about the carb because he says the 'new' carb don't have the same adjustments that the older ones had?

It seems to run fine. He also dug out a receipt for a new starter he bought online for $121.

for what ever reason he just stopped using it.

When I saw it go outside under a tarp, I asked him what he plans to do with it, especially after all that work. His response was that he'd sell it if he thought he could get his money out of it. When I asked how much that is he came up with $599, but said if I wanted it, he'd take $400 cash. I think he's been thinking harder about how much that motor cost him and don't want to let it go now.

He's sounding like he wants to let it go without the motor now. He's got a Jacobsen sitting there with a blown 16hp in it that turned up the other day.

He keeps complaining about how small the WH is and he feels cramped on it, he raised the seat so high he had 4x4 blocks on the pedals so he can reach. He's well over 6' tall, but the seat is set way upward, and way back. I'd have to put that back the way it came from the factory too.

I was looking for an older looking machine that I could use around the yard, an never owned a WH, so this looked perfect. It'll mostly pull a wagon and move my boat trailer into the back yard when winter comes. If I can find a snow plow for it, that would be great too, I'd really like to have a rear mounted tiller but I'm not sure how common those are for an older machine.

The way I left it was that if he wanted $400, I'd take it, if he had to keep the motor, I'd give him $100, but he went on about how the transaxle, rear wheels, and hubs were worth $150 by themselves. So its $150 or nothing minus the motor.

I snapped a pic of it. (It also got a new feature today, he had a bucket of compressor oil from his shop compressor sitting under the tarp on the hood, which he proceded to dump all over the hood and front of the tractor when he yanked the tarp off tonight. On the bright side, it left the hood nice and shiny red. It matched the rest of the machine prior to the oil treatment.

Here's a pic:

[freeisforme 3]

Just another thought, since I don't need it to cut grass, what is the deck alone for one of these worth?

I'd bet money on it that a good washing and that deck would look almost new. There's no rust and its super smooth and quiet.

If I can sell the deck and recoup some of the cash, then I can own it really right and put the original motor back on it.

Its over 36" but I didn't crawl under it and measure the cut width. My guess is 42 or 44" or so. He says it won't fit between the wheel wells on his Chevy half ton pickup, he said it has to rid with one pair of wheels on the tailgate.

He went digging for receipts for the new deck but never came up with them. Apparently he's owned this tractor since 1984, which was the oldest receipt he dug out for it.

[Trouty56 567]

The 8hp may have a 1" pto shaft so you might need something there. Tilling with an 8hp.....not sure the B-80 was intended for ground engaging attachments but it will fit. With the 14 there are no limitations.

The deck is an attachment that will sell. 8hp will plow snow great....maybe look for a trade.

[freeisforme 3]

When I got the 8hp from him, it still had the clutch and pulleys on it. I have those here.

He took the 14hp off it today, he's trying to make it work in another tractor.

I made a deal for the tractor only, no motor, some cash and two new tires I had here that fit his new project. I figured they were worth about $50 for the pair.

So now I have a B-80 with no motor, just waiting for me to swap in the original motor.

What is a good used deck worth?

[dennist 139]

Hey, You made a nice deal for you and that is a good thing.

...Me, I never would have let K321 out of my sights.

[bowtiebutler956 650]

That's great that you own it !! I'll be looking forward to seeing pics of it put back together. Congrats! I'm sorry to here about the K321 though, those are awesome engines.

Matt :flags-texas:

[freeisforme 3]

The new engine would have been nice, it would have pretty much meant it was usable as it sat at least for right away. Either way the 8hp runs fine.

I also have a few other motor options but I have to check out those motors. I know I've got a 12hp Kohler in the shed that came from some sort of masonry cart.

It looks rough but it ran. I believe its the same basic engine as the 14hp.

I have the larger pulleys and clutch from the 14hp, as well as the voltage regulator that was on the tin, and a box of spare parts he had. He also gave me the parts motor, which I believe is a 12hp too, but its got very little compression. The head is off it, there's a pretty serious ring ridge and a lot of piston rock in that motor.

He also gave me two spare carbs, not sure which one is for what yet.

I've got an array of motors here, but not that many Kohler motors. Most are Briggs or Wisconsin.

The deck is different than the one on the B-80 pictured above by bowtie, the bearing covers on mine are open ended. It don't match any of the decks in the 1977 Brochure I found online. Do newer decks interchange? I know he bought a deck for it a few years back, I'm not sure what was on it before.

[chesbaycruiser 83]

Looks like a 42" deck.

I know there's always stories of someone getting one for a "steal", but around here --depending on it's actual condition--that would easily fetch north of $200.

[freeisforme 3]

Did WH change the color of red they used over the years?

The deck on this thing is more red than the rest of the tractor.

I notice that some look to be more of a Tomato red than say an apple red color.

No doubt the B-80 I just bought needs a paint job, so the first order of business will most likely be to strip it down and repaint everything from the start.

While I'm by far not looking to restore it, I do want to preserve it.

I did notice that the rear axle seals are wet looking, so two new seals are in order. I was surprised that the hubs came right off. I'll leave the original tires, they're not cracked and have good tread, but the rims need new paint. I'm not sure if I'll bother with the hubcaps or not, they have some surface rust and pitting and it may look better just with clean painted wheels. I also want to get a pair of rear wheel weights for it.

I'll need to find a hood latch assembly and a headlight panel. Depending on cost, I'd consider adding headlights, that is if the original headlights are bright enough to be effective.

I'll pull the deck off and clean it up a bit and take a few pics, I guess it goes on CL. Maybe selling the deck will cover the cost of the tractor.

Does the front mule drive work with other attachments or is it only for the deck?

I'd like to find a rear tiller set up for this and a hitch so I can pull a plow and disc in the garden in the future. I have a Brinly plow and double gang disc set up for a sleeve hitch already.

[rmaynard 15,519]

On color. Do a search on Wheel Horse color, or Wheel Horse red. You will find that this has been an ongoing subject since the forum began, and I'm sure long before that. So in answer to your first question, yes, they did change colors. Seem like they did it quite a few times.

Original headlights do not offer much light. Again a search on this forum will reveal many things that owners have done to increase the output of light.

Seals are easy to replace once you have removed the hubs. Removing the hubs is sometimes a problem, but again, a search of the forum will show the many ways that people have gotten their hubs off. With leaking seals, you may be lucky. Sometimes a hub on a leaky seal axle will slide right off.

[Ken B 3,164]

Gee you may wind up makin money on this deal. Cleaned up and with some fresh paint I'd say 300.00 is easily possible on the deck. Gonna split the profits with yer neighbor? Seriously, your on yer way to getting yourself a free tractor. I knew you chose freeisforme as a screen name for a reason.

I have always found the factory lights to be sufficient. These guys that add all these lights must be blind or something. :)

[freeisforme 3]

Both hubs came right off, I loosened the set screw and tapped them right off. They're not dripping oil but just wet. I pried out a seal and will match one up at the bearing supply today.

I may even have a seal to fit, several years ago I trash picked a CR seal assortment from a defunct auto parts store. Its bailed me out dozens of times.

There's got to be 5,000 seals or more. If I can find a CR part number, the search will be easy.

I took a ride to a local flea market Sunday morning, I picked up an overhaul kit for a Kohler engine, the guy wasn't sure if it fit a 10 or 12hp Kohler. He bought it for a Cub Cadet and never used it. I figured for $15 I couldn't lose. I have to do some measuring to see which engine its for.

Maybe I got lucky and it fits one of these motors I've got here. The 12hp that my neighbor first bought for this thing is already bored for a new piston, maybe I'll get lucky.

The deck won't need much more than a good cleaning, the paint is decent and there's little to no rust underneath. The only rust is a few paint chips on the belt cover.

Most of what you see is just dust and a few scrapes on the ends from rubbing past things while cutting grass.

Something I always wanted to have is a tractor with a mid blade grader, this may be a prime candidate for that. I've got a few old acetylene tanks I can use for a blade, and I can use the factory lift to raise and lower it.

My need for a rear tiller ended yesterday as well, I picked up a Bolens with a rear tiller that needs some work on the motor. The ignition switch fell apart and the guy tried to hot wire it with 12v and fried the ignition module.

The only two items I need to find for the B-80 is a hood latch and a headlight panel. The rest is all paint work and installing a motor.

[pfrederi 17,741]

Check the pinned thread at the top of the transmission forum for bearing and seal #s

1" axle CR 9815

1-1/8 axle CR 11050