D-180 FEL Belt

[JamesBe1 82]

I recently replaced the engine on my D-180. While I had everything apart, I decided to strip and paint several parts. Among them was the FEL.

Here is a pic of the FEL pump before:

Here are the pics after:

I mounted the FEL frame and pump. I went to fill it with 5 qts of oil, and it overflowed. I drained everything and started over with 3qts like the manual said (I should read more closely).

I started the engine and engaged the PTO. Everything seemed ok for the first 30 seconds or so, and I moved one of the spool valve levers. The engine seemed to bog for a second, and the pump seemed to have a hard time. I dunno, maybe this was all my imagination.

I stopped everything, and found that the pressure hose to the spool valve had disconnected itself at the quick disconnect. I must not have connected it properly to begin with. I reconnected it, and rechecked all the hoses, and looked for leaks (none).

I started everything back up, and re-engaged the PTO. After 2O seconds or so, the belt for the FEL pump was smoking. I killed everything, and found that the PTO pulley and belt were extremely hot.

After everything cooled, I started the engine and slowly started to re-engage the pto. Nothing seemed to want to turn. Checked it and found that the PTO was not engaging completely. Troubleshot that and after a while found that I had forgotten to install a lock washer on the front of the PTO, and the bolt was backing out allowing the pulley not to engage properly. Installed lock washer, and the bolt and PTO stay put now.

After repeated attempts, the belt still starts smoking after 10 or 20 seconds. Everything seems the same as when it ran properly. The only thing is I painted various parts including the pulleys. Thinking that paint in the pulley groove might be causing the belt to stick, I used a wire wheel one the end of a drill to clean out the pulley grooves.

Still the same problem.

Anyone have any idea what to try next?

Oh yeah, important. I can turn the PTO by hand with the FEL pulley attached. Not too difficult at all, about what you would expect.

Feel free to ask questions, at this point, I'm flabbergasted.

[1maidenfan 202]

I recently replaced the engine on my D-180. While I had everything apart, I decided to strip and paint several parts. Among them was the FEL.

Here is a pic of the FEL pump before:

Here are the pics after:

I mounted the FEL frame and pump. I went to fill it with 5 qts of oil, and it overflowed. I drained everything and started over with 3qts like the manual said (I should read more closely).

I started the engine and engaged the PTO. Everything seemed ok for the first 30 seconds or so, and I moved one of the spool valve levers. The engine seemed to bog for a second, and the pump seemed to have a hard time. I dunno, maybe this was all my imagination.

I stopped everything, and found that the pressure hose to the spool valve had disconnected itself at the quick disconnect. I must not have connected it properly to begin with. I reconnected it, and rechecked all the hoses, and looked for leaks (none).

I started everything back up, and re-engaged the PTO. After 2O seconds or so, the belt for the FEL pump was smoking. I killed everything, and found that the PTO pulley and belt were extremely hot.

After everything cooled, I started the engine and slowly started to re-engage the pto. Nothing seemed to want to turn. Checked it and found that the PTO was not engaging completely. Troubleshot that and after a while found that I had forgotten to install a lock washer on the front of the PTO, and the bolt was backing out allowing the pulley not to engage properly. Installed lock washer, and the bolt and PTO stay put now.

After repeated attempts, the belt still starts smoking after 10 or 20 seconds. Everything seems the same as when it ran properly. The only thing is I painted various parts including the pulleys. Thinking that paint in the pulley groove might be causing the belt to stick, I used a wire wheel one the end of a drill to clean out the pulley grooves.

Still the same problem.

Anyone have any idea what to try next?

Oh yeah, important. I can turn the PTO by hand with the FEL pulley attached. Not too difficult at all, about what you would expect.

Feel free to ask questions, at this point, I'm flabbergasted.

Is the pulley on the pump turning?

By chance are the fluid lines on backwords?

Not to sure of other causes at this point, you seem to have covered the majority of them. :huhs:

[1maidenfan 202]

I looked a little closer at your pic's, it looks like the rear pto pulley is rubbing on the FEL belt. Possibly part of the problem :scratchead:

[JamesBe1 82]

Yes, I can even turn the pulley by hand and turn the FEL pump.

I believe the lines are correct. The connects on the pump inlet and outlet were different, and the ends of each of those hoses were either a male of female quick disconnect. (I hope I explained that well enough), so there appeared to be only one way to put it back together.

What if one of the hoses were clogged? Would this manifest hard turning of the pump only at hight speeds from the engine, and not be noticeable when I turn it by hand? I know I'm probably grasping at the wrong straw, but I don't mind.

[JamesBe1 82]

I looked a little closer at your pic's, it looks like the rear pto pulley is rubbing on the FEL belt. Possibly part of the problem

Darn good observation.

They are close, but not touching. It was that way even before I took it off. It must have been pushed back a bit and bent some metal. Still, it's not touching, and wasn't a problem before I took it apart. Also, if it were touching, I don't think I would be able to turn it by hand.

[1maidenfan 202]

K. Now I'm at a loss.

Is the belt new or an old one? If it's old that might be a cause? Grabbing at straws now.

Seen black marks on the pulley, figured it was from that belt, your earlier photo the pulley doesn't have the black mark on it.

[312Hydro 474]

Take a look at the quick connects on the pressure side. The checks inside may not be opening when the hoses are coupled. It sounds like the pump is building pressure and isn't being relieved back to the tank.That could be why it locks up .

[JamesBe1 82]

K. Now I'm at a loss.

Is the belt new or an old one? If it's old that might be a cause? Grabbing at straws now.

Seen black marks on the pulley, figured it was from that belt, your earlier photo the pulley doesn't have the black mark on it.

I went back and doublechecked things after your post just to make sure. I looked at the distance between the actual belt, and the rear pto pulley (as opposed to between the pulleys themselves, and there is at least 1/4" of room between the belt and the pulley.

I believe that the black marks on the pulley face were from one attempt when the nut on the tensioner fell off, and the belt started to jump around a lot. The tensioner system is a long j-bolt that hooks onto one side of the pump (opposite the hinge), and runs through a hole in the frame beneath the pump. Apparently, the j-bolt snapped off (when I took everything apart) leaving very little thread to attach a nut too. At the moment, I have zip ties holding the pulley down in place. It seems to be working rather well at holding tension. Go figure.

I have to go to the hardware store tomorrow and see if I can find a long enough j-bolt. Either that, or I will have to by a long bolt and bend it into a hook.

[JamesBe1 82]

Take a look at the quick connects on the pressure side. The checks inside may not be opening when the hoses are coupled. It sounds like the pump is building pressure and isn't being relieved back to the tank.That could be why it locks up .

That's what I was wondering! It would be in keeping with the quick connect pushing itself apart on the first run. How can I check that to be sure they are opening?

Can I hold the center pin down and slowly start the PTO and see if I have flow? Or is that somehow inherently dangerous? I'm far from an expert in these kinds of hydraulics. Maybe I'll try disconnecting it at the spool valves. If I get flow there, then the check valve is working.

[312Hydro 474]

Take a look at the quick connects on the pressure side. The checks inside may not be opening when the hoses are coupled. It sounds like the pump is building pressure and isn't being relieved back to the tank.That could be why it locks up .

That's what I was wondering! It would be in keeping with the quick connect pushing itself apart on the first run. How can I check that to be sure they are opening?

Can I hold the center pin down and slowly start the PTO and see if I have flow?

Don't do that! if it is open it will be under pressure spraying out. You can do a visual check (engine off) with the quik connects to see if the checks inside are ok. Some connectors have a bar inside and the pin may not be hitting it to open the check. The bar could be bent or have a notch worn into it. Do you have an extra hose that you could run into a bucket? That would be safer than holding it. If you do end up checking while the pump is running put on a pair of goggles to protect your eyes.

[JamesBe1 82]

Take a look at the quick connects on the pressure side. The checks inside may not be opening when the hoses are coupled. It sounds like the pump is building pressure and isn't being relieved back to the tank.That could be why it locks up .

That's what I was wondering! It would be in keeping with the quick connect pushing itself apart on the first run. How can I check that to be sure they are opening?

Can I hold the center pin down and slowly start the PTO and see if I have flow?

Don't do that! if it is open it will be under pressure spraying out. You can do a visual check (engine off) with the quik connects to see if the checks inside are ok. Some connectors have a bar inside and the pin may not be hitting it to open the check. The bar could be bent or have a notch worn into it. Do you have an extra hose that you could run into a bucket? That would be safer than holding it. If you do end up checking while the pump is running put on a pair of goggles to protect your eyes.

Thanx Rich! I am aware of the dangers of high pressure. I wouldn't dream of pushing in the pin while there is possibly pressure in the system. I appreciate your quick response as to being safe.

I don't have any other hoses. I was going to disconnect at the spool valve and run into a container while slowly engaging the pto. I believe that I should see flow, if I don't get any, then I think it would probably be the quick connect.

I'll let you know how it goes.

I don

[312Hydro 474]

Take a look at the quick connects on the pressure side. The checks inside may not be opening when the hoses are coupled. It sounds like the pump is building pressure and isn't being relieved back to the tank.That could be why it locks up .

That's what I was wondering! It would be in keeping with the quick connect pushing itself apart on the first run. How can I check that to be sure they are opening?

Can I hold the center pin down and slowly start the PTO and see if I have flow?

Don't do that! if it is open it will be under pressure spraying out. You can do a visual check (engine off) with the quik connects to see if the checks inside are ok. Some connectors have a bar inside and the pin may not be hitting it to open the check. The bar could be bent or have a notch worn into it. Do you have an extra hose that you could run into a bucket? That would be safer than holding it. If you do end up checking while the pump is running put on a pair of goggles to protect your eyes.

Thanx Rich! I am aware of the dangers of high pressure. I wouldn't dream of pushing in the pin while there is possibly pressure in the system. I appreciate your quick response as to being safe.

I don't have any other hoses. I was going to disconnect at the spool valve and run into a container while slowly engaging the pto. I believe that I should see flow, if I don't get any, then I think it would probably be the quick connect.

I'll let you know how it goes.

I don

I figured that you knew but I didn't want to be the cause of a problem! Disconnecting the pressure hose at the spool should tell you what you want to know. The pin side may be damaged too.

[wheeledhorseman 574]

Love to be able to offer some help here James but I know nothing about these.

It does sound as though the pump is having to work too hard for some reason but it might also be worth checking the alignment of the pulleys to eliminate that possibility.

Is the PTO pulley groove in good allignment with the pulley groove on the pump when the pto is engaged?

Is the face of the pulley on the pump actually vertical?

Andy

[JamesBe1 82]

And Rich (312hydro) gets a star by his name!

I disconnected the line from the spool valves, and slowly engaged the pto. Nothing came out, and the pump was unhappy, and the belt started smoking. I shut everything down. I checked the quick connects, and made sure that the points opened properly. I started the tractor, and held the pressure pin open (by hand), and slowly engaged the pto. And it started flowing. I put the quick connects back together, and slowly engaged the pto again, and checked the outlet going to the spool valves. Lotsa flow! I could barely run it for a few seconds, and it must have peed out almost a quart. Woohoo!

I hooked everything back up, and slowly engaged the pto again. No pump issues, and no melting belt. I figured that I would run the system to fill the cylinders. I didn't know which spool valve was for the lift or tilt, so I just picked one. I pushed it in, and the pump went crazy, and the belt started smoking. Shoot! I quickly killed the engine and disengaged the pto.

I rechecked the quick connects, and everything seems ok. I opened and closed both of the spool valves to release any pressures.

I started the engine and slowly engaged the pto. Pump turned, and the belt did not smoke. I tried the spool valves again, and nothing happened. The pump is turning nicely, but nothing moves when I moved the spool valves.

I checked the flow going to the spool valves, and there is nothing. The pump is turning and the belt is ok, but no flow. I hope I didn't kill the pump.

Hopefully, I'll find some time tonite to check it further. It may be that it is low on oil. I put three quarts in like the manual says. I lost about a quart re-establishing the flow to the spool valves, and I have oversized lift cylinders. Maybe I am out of oil?

More at 11

[312Hydro 474]

And Rich (312hydro) gets a star by his name!

I disconnected the line from the spool valves, and slowly engaged the pto. Nothing came out, and the pump was unhappy, and the belt started smoking. I shut everything down. I checked the quick connects, and made sure that the points opened properly. I started the tractor, and held the pressure pin open (by hand), and slowly engaged the pto. And it started flowing. I put the quick connects back together, and slowly engaged the pto again, and checked the outlet going to the spool valves. Lotsa flow! I could barely run it for a few seconds, and it must have peed out almost a quart. Woohoo!

I hooked everything back up, and slowly engaged the pto again. No pump issues, and no melting belt. I figured that I would run the system to fill the cylinders. I didn't know which spool valve was for the lift or tilt, so I just picked one. I pushed it in, and the pump went crazy, and the belt started smoking. Shoot! I quickly killed the engine and disengaged the pto.

I rechecked the quick connects, and everything seems ok. I opened and closed both of the spool valves to release any pressures.

I started the engine and slowly engaged the pto. Pump turned, and the belt did not smoke. I tried the spool valves again, and nothing happened. The pump is turning nicely, but nothing moves when I moved the spool valves.

I checked the flow going to the spool valves, and there is nothing. The pump is turning and the belt is ok, but no flow. I hope I didn't kill the pump.

Hopefully, I'll find some time tonite to check it further. It may be that it is low on oil. I put three quarts in like the manual says. I lost about a quart re-establishing the flow to the spool valves, and I have oversized lift cylinders. Maybe I am out of oil?

More at 11

Might be air in the system or the pump needs primed?Could be the low oil too. Looks like you 're on the right track now!

[JamesBe1 82]

Success! The fundamental problem that I was having was the quick connects were not seating all the way. That was the whole of it.

A round on me for all who helped (and even spectated)!

The last no-go issue was due to the feed line quick connect not seating properly. The pump was not getting any oil. That was why the pump was turning, but there was not flow. I got that seated properly, and as soon as I engaged the pto, the pressure side quick connect popped off. Apparently, I did not have that one seated correctly either.

I finally got that one seated properly, and I was shocked to see the tilt cylinder arms move. I ran them out and back in half way before the pump started making noise. I fed it some more oil, and it got quiet again. They were uneven (one has a slow internal leak), and I ran them back and forth the get them flushed out and even.

I hit the valve for the lift cylinders, and it took a couple of seconds, but they started lifting. I ran them all the way up to see if they hit my stack mufflers. There was a little rubbing, but I was able to move the stack a little inboard to give it enough clearance. Once I had the lift cylinders all the way up, I figured that it would be low on oil, so I added another quart. These are 2500psi cylinders, and they are a little slow, and have a much larger body. I started to run them down, and oil started squirting out of the reservoir vent. What a mess. I had to siphon some out. Took out about half a quart and started moving them down again. More leakage from the reservoir vent. I was running low on paper towels, and decided to stop for the night and let the drippings drain into a canister I placed under it.

Tomorrow, I'll try to get the oil level right.

Next step is I have to dig out the bucket and see about getting the in shape.

[1maidenfan 202]

:woohoo: success at last. Glad to hear it's working for you now.

Will need pic's of complete loader on tractor, possibly working? :beer:

[JamesBe1 82]

Pics will definitely be forthcoming! I'm almost ready to put the hood back on, and it should be 99% done.

Hopefully, I'll scrounge up some money for some decals soon.

[JamesBe1 82]

Finally got my oil levels right and it is no longer relieving itself on the floor (bad tractor!)

My zip tie holding the pump in place kept loosening itself from the vibrations, so I had to fab a large j-bolt. It worked out well After I put it on and tightened it properly, things started working as smooth as silk.

Here are some pics. I think they might rightly belong in the category of strange but true as I have never seen anyone try to put stack mufflers on a D-Series with an FEL. But somehow it seems to work.

Hopefully I'll be able to install the hood tomorrow. Luckily, I was able to get the odd hood hinge bushings off of my seconds D. Also, new cam latches from McMaster-Carr. All I need to do now is replace the old trim loc, and get some decals.

Please don't mind the messy shed.

[wheeledhorseman 574]

Bravo James! A not so dysfunctional 'D' anymore.

Good to read that you're going to put the decals on; that's going to be a mighty fine beast!

Love the photos of it with the stacks and FEL.

Andy

[1maidenfan 202]

Seen you posted pic's in your gallery of the loader on...looks fabulous

Cant wait to get mine done, I have loads of dirt and stone that need moved.

If I could just get my hydraulic guy to finish my hoses :confusion-waiting:

[JamesBe1 82]

Thankyou very much!

I am sure you read my woes with hoses and quick connects. Hopefully you won't make the same mistakes I did.

Please post some pics of the finished product. We'd all love to see them.

If I can be of any help, let me know.

j

[1maidenfan 202]

Thankyou very much!

I am sure you read my woes with hoses and quick connects. Hopefully you won't make the same mistakes I did.

Please post some pics of the finished product. We'd all love to see them.

If I can be of any help, let me know.

j

Thanks. Pic's will be posted as soon as I can get it together.

I am building this from scratch from pic's I took of others.