MaineDad 85 #1 Posted July 12, 2008 OK guys, Just got the C-160 Auto home. My son has the camera, so pics will come later tonight or first thing in the am. My question is the hydro tranny does not want to move at all. So I jacked up the rear and put jacks stands under for support so the rear wheels are off the ground. The wheels rotate freely, except they go the opposite way of each other. Now remember, I have always been an 8-speed guy and this is my first hydro so take it easy on me. Is this correct for the wheels to do this? What am I missing? The first of many questions probably B) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky-(Admin) 21,398 #2 Posted July 12, 2008 I bet the bypass valve is in the open position. Mike....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylyon-(Admin) 7,299 #3 Posted July 12, 2008 Couple of reasons, first as Mike mentioned, be sure that the valve is screwed all the way clockwise. It is located near the left rear fender between the seat and foot rest. Second, there is a parking brake, be sure that it is in the down position. You should be able to see the pulley on the hydro turn. Looking forward to the pictures. Oh, and the wheels should rotate opposite each other it has an open differential. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rideawaysenior 25 #4 Posted July 12, 2008 Micah, The wheels spin in opposite directions due to the differential. First check the tow valve. There is one of two places it would be. Either on top of the hydro pump, or on the right side between the pump and the tool box (I think). Make sure that is closed. I would also check the oil. It should have 10W30 weight in there not ATF fluid. If you need more help, send a PM, I may be able to help out more. Jack Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaineDad 85 #5 Posted July 12, 2008 Mike, I already checked that. It is closed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaineDad 85 #6 Posted July 12, 2008 OK - glad to know that they should spin opposite of each other. What a scare. I'll look for the tow valve. I bought 6 quarts of 10w-30 and a new oil filter today. I will do a complete fluid change tomorrow. Does the brake pedal do anything else besides return the transmission to nuetral? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylyon-(Admin) 7,299 #7 Posted July 12, 2008 Nope, the brake pedal only moves the lever to neutral, there isn't any brakes on this tractor it is all hydraulic. The tow valve is the valve Mike talked about. If that is closed, check the fluid and that the pump is turning. Does the lift function? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaineDad 85 #8 Posted July 12, 2008 Can't check the lift again till tomorrow morning. Kids are in bed and the garage is right under them. Does anyone have picture of the control lever friction adjustment area? Also I'm looking for a parts manual for this tractor. Can anyone email me a pdf version? Thanks, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buzz 502 #9 Posted July 12, 2008 Micah, good luck with your tractor. You can download a manual from Toro for your transmission and hydraulic system. Not sure what year you have so I entered 61-16KS01 for model number and riding mower for product type. https://lookup3.toro.com/request/request.cfm They say you can order a manual for the tractor from them but when you click on it , it says "none available". I think if you call them at 1-888-384-9939 with your model number they will have one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaineDad 85 #10 Posted July 12, 2008 OK guys here's an update. I changed the engine oil and added some seafoam. Adjusted the carb so it runs better. Good to go on the engine. I then changed the tranny fluid with 10w-30 and replaced the oil filter. The owners manual said it takes 6 quarts. I was able to add 4 quarts after draining it, but it now reads full. OK I guess. BUT - it still does not move. It makes a small whining sound when I move the lever forward. The transmission pulley is spinning, the parking brake is in the down position, and the tow valve is closed. I did some searching and found that many of these had parking prawl problems - I hope this is not the case. Any other ideas? The lift is not working either. Having fun and getting greasy today B) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kj4kicks 152 #11 Posted July 12, 2008 Hi Micah, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if it's whining and the lift doesn't work either, you're not making any pressure. Could be a number of different things, but it is an internal problem for sure. If you have the manual, and access to a transmission pressure gauge, you can do some testing on it. I don't remember the pressures right off hand, sorry. Joe's is parting out a C-160 right now, and has a hydro assembly listed on ebay. Might be the cheaper way to go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpinnc 12,339 #12 Posted July 12, 2008 I was able to add 4 quarts after draining it, but it now reads full. OK I guess. BUT - it still does not move. It makes a small whining sound when I move the lever forward. Micah, if you added 4 quarts and it reads full, it is because NO fluid is in the pump yet! Also, the whining sound is the same thing my Charger (which uses basically the same tranny) made when the fluid was low. A little whine is normal on a hydro, but a dry pump makes a loud whine! When the fluid gets low in a Sundstrand, it won't move under power. Also, because there is no fluid in the pump, there is no rolling resistance you normally have with a hydro, when you push or tow it. Fill it completely, and then play around with the tow valve, etc before giving up on it. Kevin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nylyon-(Admin) 7,299 #13 Posted July 12, 2008 I seem to remember somewhere here recently that there was a post about a burp valve or bolt. Not sure if that was on the Eaton or the Sunstrand or not. Search around, could be worth a shot, if not Eldon is probably correct. He's been inside of these pumps and knows much more than I do on this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaineDad 85 #14 Posted July 12, 2008 Thanks for the help guys... Kevin I will try to add more oil and see if that helps. Anyways, as promised, here are some pictures. I have the belt guard and seat and fender off right now, but you can get the idea. Full view: Belt side - is it on correct? Control Valve: Linkage - I'm not sure if all is correct in here or not? Tranny Close-up: Seat and Fender: Others standing bye and watching: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaineDad 85 #15 Posted July 12, 2008 I also noticed that there is no nut or anything in this middle hole. But the picture looks like it is empty too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpinnc 12,339 #16 Posted July 13, 2008 Micah, your belt routing and linkages all look to be in the right place. I remember a really good pic of the tow valve somewhere recently, I want to say it was a thread Tmo (treed) had started, but don't hold me to that. I'll dig around and see what I can come up with... Kevin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaineDad 85 #17 Posted July 13, 2008 Thanks Kevin... Boy it's hard to find a parts manual for this tractor B) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaineDad 85 #18 Posted July 13, 2008 Just realized that I can push the tractor even with the tow valve closed B) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpinnc 12,339 #19 Posted July 13, 2008 Just realized that I can push the tractor even with the tow valve closed It'll let you, providing there is no fluid in the pump. I may be wrong, but I think that is the whole problem with your's... I just can't think of a reason why the pump wouldn't "prime" itself when the drive pulley is turning, short of a problem with the tow valve.... The thing is- Even a BADLY worn pump will still move under it's own power, and the hydraulics will move. They would just be very weak, and very slow. And, you still wouldn't be able to push the tractor around without some difficulty. There IS a procedure in the Sundstrand manual (on page 50, fig 91) to verify the bypass plug hasn't loosened or fallen completely out. It's a very simple procedure, and doesn't require a full disassembly. The procedure is the answer to the troubleshooting guide question "Tractor won't move in either direction- occurs with little or no warning". I have the manual on my desktop, but I can't seem to load the single page into Photobucket. Maybe someone will jump in here and help us out with getting this info to you. It's definately worth checking into.... As well as alot of other info you NEED for the transmission. Sorry, I just don't think what you're dealing with is a case of a worn out tranny. It's something else... Kevin 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curmudgeon 28 #20 Posted July 13, 2008 Could it be possible the axle is spinning in the hub? Or possibly something is broken in the differential? No, couldn't be that, you said the wheels spun in opposite directions when off the ground, just like they are supposed to... hmmmmmm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TT-(Moderator) 1,145 #21 Posted July 13, 2008 What about a stuck relief valve? B) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpinnc 12,339 #22 Posted July 13, 2008 Back up and check my last post fellas. Can anyone help us out here? I was editing it when you guys posted... Kevin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaineDad 85 #23 Posted July 13, 2008 Kevin, I have the manual and looked on page 50. I will give it a try. This seems to make sense - Should I drain all the oil again to do this? Thanks for the help guys! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpinnc 12,339 #24 Posted July 14, 2008 Should I drain all the oil again to do this? I wouldn't think you'd need to Micah. Keep us posted! Kevin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaineDad 85 #25 Posted July 14, 2008 Update - Looks like my setup is different than the diagram on page 50. I do not know where to find the internal plug it mentions. Tow Valve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
