Fixing RM-364 mower deck

[sscotsman 148]

Hey everyone,

im having deck problems!

was mowing the lawn yesterday with the RM-364 deck on my 1964 model 854 tractor,

and the deck broke!

rather than post photos and a description, I made a video!

A few things to clarify though, that I didnt explain well in the video..

I said "The deck binds up on tall grass"..

"binds up" isnt the best way to say it..what happens (I think) is that a belt (or belts) slip, and the blades stop spinning.

I also said the belts "are very thick"..I meant "stiff"..

I think the belts are old, perhaps not as pliable and flexable as they should be,

and in tall-ish grass (which is not "too tall" at all, IMO) the belts dont hold tight enough, they slip,

and the grass is not cut..or thats what I assume is happening anyway..I could be wrong!

this grass was also totally dry..

video:

im thinking about replacing all the belts..I have read, here on RS, that its quite the undertaking!

but I think it is probably the only solution..I believe the gears are in great shape..the gears are very quiet.

I have the manual for the deck..it gives part numbers, but no suggestions on how to fix anything..

I have two main questions for the group here:

1. how do I re-attach that pully?

2. any thoughts on what is causing the mowing issues?

any thoughts or suggestions are welcome!

thanks,

Scot

[SousaKerry 501]

Sorry I had to laugh when the geese flew over in the video it reminded me of that scene in UP where the dog is talking to someone and all of the sudden "Squirrel" and then is right back in the conversation.

I'll let one of the round hood guys answer this one I have one of these decks to rebuild also and my pulley looks like it's going to fall off as well.

[sludgeguy 0]

The pulley is held on by a 3/4 inch snap ring around the shaft.

I just replaced the belts on the deck itself. It is a pain to do but can be done. Before doing that you might want to put yours back together and try tightening the arms that hold the the shaft. First loosen the jam nuts then tighten both of them equally until you have the belts even and snug.

The belt you said you purchased from NAPA, I was going to replace mine and left it in my van. My daughter came and took the van and my belt back to college.

What size is that belt please.

Thanks,

Sludgeguy

[sscotsman 148]

Thanks guys!

Sousa, yeah, it does sound like that dog from "UP"! heh..didnt think of that before!

The pulley is held on by a 3/4 inch snap ring around the shaft.

I just replaced the belts on the deck itself. It is a pain to do but can be done. Before doing that you might want to put yours back together and try tightening the arms that hold the the shaft. First loosen the jam nuts then tighten both of them equally until you have the belts even and snug.

The belt you said you purchased from NAPA, I was going to replace mine and left it in my van. My daughter came and took the van and my belt back to college.

What size is that belt please.

Thanks,

Sludgeguy

Sludge,

tighten what exactly? im not sure what you are refering to..

I got the Napa belt number from a post here on Red Square..let me look it up..

ah, ok, here it is:

hmm..I thought it was in that thread, but I dont see it now..here is another reference:

http://www.wheelhorse.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1782

Mower Drive Belt: WH p/n 7430 - 4L (1/2" wide x 5/16" tall) style, 28" (one belt, from the deck to the engine pully) Napa part Number 4L280W.

Spindle Drive Belts: WH p/n 1578 - 3L (3/8" wide x 7/32" tall) style, 37" (two belts on the deck)

(someone please double-check that Napa part number! thanks.)

Scot

[sludgeguy 0]

Scott

The shaft that has the pulley that fell off is held in place by 2 adjustable bars.

If you follow the bars back to the rear of the deck you will find a jam nut on each. Loosen it and turn the bars out the same number of turns til the mower belts are tight. Then retighten the jam nuts.

Thanks so much for the belt info.

If you need further info email me at sludgeguy(AT)yahoo(dot)com.

Thanks again,

Doug

[sscotsman 148]

Scott

The shaft that has the pulley that fell off is held in place by 2 adjustable bars.

If you follow the bars back to the rear of the deck you will find a jam nut on each. Loosen it and turn the bars out the same number of turns til the mower belts are tight. Then retighten the jam nuts.

Thanks so much for the belt info.

If you need further info email me at sludgeguy(AT)yahoo(dot)com.

Thanks again,

Doug

Ah! thanks..now I see it!

I never even noticed those are adjustable before! cool..I will give that a try..tighten up those belts..

I will take a look at the pulley this weekend and see if I can figure out why it fell off,

and how to re-attach it..

the owners manual/parts diagram only lists two parts:

part 1625 - pully

part 1278 - washer

I have both of those still, so I dont think im mising a part in the grass or anything..

but im not sure what holds the pully on..I will take a look at it..

thanks,

Scot

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,060]

Item 15 are the needle bearings

Item 16 is the seal

Item 17 is the 3/4" snap ring which is sized to the shaft it fits on.

These rings are stamped so one side is rounded and the other has sharp edges. Clean the groove out and install so the sharp edge faces out. Less chance of it coming off that way.

Garry

[squonk 41,167]

If you decide to change the deck belts, Go to Napa and buy 2 boxes of rags! All kidding aside, when it's apart, pay close attention to the bearings in the stands that support the cross shaft. They were originally pressed and staked into the stands and pressed on to the shaft. They are know for coming loose on the shaft and wearing down the shaft causing lots of side to side movement. When it gets loose enough, the gears start banging together and soon they will be toast.

[SousaKerry 501]

<p>I tore mine apart last night noticed that the cross shaft gears are worn to a point on one side. I don't think this is how they are supposed to look

[sludgeguy 0]

Hey Sousakerry2, that is exactly how it is supposed to look. The pointed gear transfers the power from horizontal to vertical. Has to be pointed or it wouldn't line up with the verticla gear.

Mine is back together and mowing great. All new belts on the deck and mower drive.

[squonk 41,167]

I just watched the video saw the tall grass and I started sneezing. :*****: Darn allergies. Scot, if you get that pulley on and the belts tight and still have problems those inner belts might need changing. You can bring the deck here and I'll give you a hand if you like. there is a chance those pulley sheaves are worn out. I think I have spares. Remember, Lots of rags!!

[sscotsman 148]

Item 15 are the needle bearings

Item 16 is the seal

Item 17 is the 3/4" snap ring which is sized to the shaft it fits on.

These rings are stamped so one side is rounded and the other has sharp edges. Clean the groove out and install so the sharp edge faces out. Less chance of it coming off that way.

Garry

'doh! right you are Garry, I didnt notice on the drawing that those parts go with the pully..

well, I have probably lost parts in the lawn then.

I will take a detailed look at it tomorrow, compare the drawing and parts list to the deck, and see what I am missing..

I just watched the video saw the tall grass and I started sneezing. Darn allergies. Scot, if you get that pulley on and the belts tight and still have problems those inner belts might need changing. You can bring the deck here and I'll give you a hand if you like. there is a chance those pulley sheaves are worn out. I think I have spares. Remember, Lots of rags!!

Thanks Mike! I appreciate that offer..I might take you up on it!

tomorrow I will see what parts I (probably) need to order, then (once I get the pully back together) tighten up those belts, and see if there is any improvement..

I will document here what I find and do..

thanks all the help everyone! much appreciated..

Scot

[SousaKerry 501]

Got mine completly striped down today and tore down the rotted out spare too. Anybody got a good way to rebuild the ball and socket joints on the main hanger bar? One of mine was welded poorly the other was held together by wire.

I wonder if i can find true miter gears in the right ratio that will retrofit...... hmmm i'll have to check my gear books at work.

[squonk 41,167]

Another thing. If those deck belts are worn enough they could be bottoming on the pulleys. The grip comes from the "V" part of the belts. Belts don't really stretch either. The V edges wear down making the belt sit deeper in the pulley and giving the appearance that they got longer.

[sscotsman 148]

Ok, Im definately missing parts..I took a cursory look around the lawn, in the approximate area I think the pully first came loose..

but there is no way im ever going to find them..so, I need to order parts!

The pully assembly has 6 parts, numbers 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 and 18:

I'm certain that I have parts 13, 15 and 18..

17 is the snap ring, I know that is gone..

that leaves 14 and 16 that im not sure about..

I think I have 16, (visable in the video) but im not sure if that is in fact 16..

there is also a rubber gasket at the rear of the pully..mine is broken..that doesnt appear to be a part on the diagram..

anyone know what part that is?

So, I need to place an order for parts 14, 16 and 17..(I do have one of those three, but since im not sure which one it is,

im just going to order all three anyway..if I get a duplicate part, not a big deal)

and while im at it, I might as well order a new set of spindle belts too, I will probably want them eventually..

so I think I need to order:

(14) Part No. 1278 - Washer 3/4 x 1-1/4 x .050

(16) Part No. 1303 - Seal - Oil 3/4 Shaft

(17) Part No. S-50-75 - Snap Ring 3/4 shaft

(67) Part No. 1578 - Spindle Drive Belt: WH p/n 1578 - 3L (3/8" wide x 7/32" tall) (2 needed)

(I do know, that when I order, the numbers 14, 16, 17 and 67 are meaningless, when it comes to ordering, and to only use the part numbers)

Anyone have any suggestions for a mail-order vendor where I could order all of those at once?

thanks,

Scot

[squonk 41,167]

I think that rubber "gasket" is like a shim that goes between the fast hitch and the pulley so they don't grind together. I thought I had one in my parts box but I don't. Don't see them listed either. You might be able to make one. I would go to parts tree and punch those part numbers in to see what's available.

[sscotsman 148]

(14) Part No. 1278 - Washer 3/4 x 1-1/4 x .050

and

(67) Part No. 1578 - Spindle Drive Belt: WH p/n 1578 - 3L (3/8" wide x 7/32" tall) (2 needed)

exist and can be purchased, from various sources..so those two are no problem..

(16) Part No. 1303 - Seal - Oil 3/4 Shaft

Appears to no longer be available..all the sources say something like "DUP PART SEE BOOK"..what does that mean?

(17) Part No. S-50-75 - Snap Ring 3/4 shaft.

that part number does not appear to exist on the internet..

but I bet a generic snap ring would work..Would Home Depot or Lowes carry something like that?

anything I need to know except 3/4 shaft?

Im going to go visit a local Toro dealer tomorrow..(who I believe has been around for ages,

and was a Wheel Horse dealer back in the day) and see what they have to say.

thanks,

Scot

[squonk 41,167]

He just might have all you need. There is an old dealer in Marion on Rt.21 who might be able to hook you up too. He's been in the business since the 60's I think

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,060]

(16) Part No. 1303 - Seal - Oil 3/4 Shaft

Appears to no longer be available..all the sources say something like "DUP PART SEE BOOK"..what does that mean?

From my notes

1303 replaced by 100441

Try Napa for a # 7410 Chicago Rawhide replacement.

Garry

[sscotsman 148]

Thanks Mike and Garry!

good stuff..

I will report back when I find out more..

thanks,

Scot

[sscotsman 148]

Video 2

Video 3

thanks!

Scot

[sscotsman 148]

Its fixed!

back up and running..

the pully is fixed, but the issue of the deck not being as "strong" as I think it should be,

is still not fixed..but im happy with it for now..

eventually I plan to restore this tractor, and when I do, I will probably restore the deck as well,

so the belts will get replaced then..

thanks for the help everyone!

much appreciated..

[AMC RULES 37,132]

:woohoo:

I really like the video documentary of the deck repair process, and noted also... the lilac is awfully nice too.

for sharing.

[Martin 2,132]

scot, great video documentation of your repair!

one thing i noticed that really makes a big difference when operating the pto on and off while mowing is a belt 'tab' on the pto idler pulley.. this keeps the belt in the idler pulley groove when the belt is slack.

from the last video, those deck belts need to be tighter, the adjustment really needs to be free so that they can be snugged up a little more. you could try some belt conditioner or belt grip on them until you get the adjustment sorted. it might help a little. also from video 2 part number 11 should be snugged up so that the adjusters arent loose in the cross shaft.

[sscotsman 148]

I really like the video documentary of the deck repair process, and noted... the lilac is awfully nice too.

for sharing.

Thanks Craig!

scot, great video documentation of your repair!

one thing i noticed that really makes a big difference when operating the pto on and off while mowing is a belt 'tab' on the pto idler pulley.. this keeps the belt in the idler pulley groove when the belt is slack.

Thanks Martin..

I dont seem to have a guide on the idler pully! like you do..

am I supposed to have one?

from the last video, those deck belts need to be tighter, the adjustment really needs to be free so that they can be snugged up a little more. you could try some belt conditioner or belt grip on them until you get the adjustment sorted. it might help a little. also from video 2 part number 11 should be snugged up so that the adjusters arent loose in the cross shaft.

yeah, I agree those belts are most likely the problem..thanks for confirming they look loose to you too..

(I have nothing to compare mine to! no frame of reference)

I hit the bolts with PB blaster last week, let them sit for a few days..then I noticed the PB evaporated away, so I hit them again, then tried (after a few hours)

to move the bolts..they wouldnt budge..I was using a fairly large wrench, but I need more leverage..I need a piece of steel tubing I can put over the wrench

handle to give me more leverage..I have nothing that will work at the moment, I will look around for something next week..there are several scrap metal dealers

in my area, maybe I can find something cheap..

and I didnt even notice that bolt! (part number 11)..I had no idea what that was even for..but now that you mention it, it makes sense that it needs to

be snugged up..I will do that!

Now I really want to try to get those belts tightened..I think that will make all the difference..

I will work on that some more..

(maybe video number 4 wont be the last one afterall!

thanks,

Scot