Seat safety switch

[tthan43 1]

Hello to all and I thank you in advance for any advice or help with a weird problem I am having. I am sure glad i found this site. Whoever put it together sure knew what they were doing. Excellent layout. The problem I am having with my 1992 Wheel Horse 314-8 just suddenly started. It was mowing perfectly and i put it in the storage shed where it is kept. I went out to do more mowing and wow....gobs and gobs of WHITE smoke which, after awhile, quit doing that. But, when I pushed the mower blade engage lever (power take off lever) to start the blades (with the deck up), the motor died. Hmmmmm. I tried it again after restarting and it died again when the lever is pushed to start the blades. No smoke, just dies. I then restarted and pushed the handle full forward and quick...died and popped or backfired. Well, at that point, I noticed one of the little red lights on the dash was on...it was the "seat switch" light. So apparently, the switch, when defective will not let the blades engage. Is that true? After a few days of thinking about it, I raised the seat and unhooked the seat safety switch, put the seat down, started the machine and again....tons and tons of white smoke. I had checked the oil and brought it up to the full mark and had changed both the cardboard and the foam filters so that wasn't the problem. I am not an idiot who would leave the blades running and climb on and off the mower but, is there any way to by pass the switch. Also, would you have any idea of a bad seat switch would cause all that white smoke? I grew up on a farm here in Oklahoma and am quite familiar with machinery, tractors, balers, and hoes. lol But, not wheel horse mowers. I have all the manuals and instructions from when the machine was brand new and none of them address this problem.

Thank all of you again. I appreciate it.

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,350]

I think you have two seperate problems that are not connected. For the seat switch I think if you remove the connector from the seat switch and install a jumper wire in the connector it will fix the issue for the time being until you can get a new seat switch.

The white smoke?? Not sure, but someone here will.

Mike.............

[tthan43 1]

I think you have two seperate problems that are not connected. For the seat switch I think if you remove the connector from the seat switch and install a jumper wire in the connector it will fix the issue for the time being until you can get a new seat switch.

The white smoke?? Not sure, but someone here will.

Mike.............

Thank you!!! I appreciate it. I will get on the jumper wire to see if it works. If I can't quite make out what to do, I will let you know. I know there is a BIG difference b/t white and black smoke and the troubleshooting tips made that pretty clear. But it puts out enough white smoke to look like a fog has descended on my lawn. Last time I used it a week ago before I put it up, it was perfect. Weird. I found a stupid rat nest, new, on one of the shelves in the shed so I am gonna check the wiring. My damn cat better get on the stick and earn her keep.

[shootinok 15]

Fellow Okie....

Before you jumper that switch, check the wiring diagram. My workhorse's seat switch is a normally open. If you get off the seat the contact closes and grounds the circuit; killing the engine. In other words, you might need to leave the wires unconnected and not grounding for it to run (temporarily of course ).

As for the smoke...? is it using oil?

If it's not burning oil it could be gas - just a stab at it; but if it smells rich, you may be getting too much gas at start up or left over from shutting down...

If it is not using oil, you might try a little SeaFoam to clean out the carb.

[tthan43 1]

Fellow Okie....

Before you jumper that switch, check the wiring diagram. My workhorse's seat switch is a normally open. If you get off the seat the contact closes and grounds the circuit; killing the engine. In other words, you might need to leave the wires unconnected and not grounding for it to run (temporarily of course ).

As for the smoke...? is it using oil?

If it's not burning oil it could be gas - just a stab at it; but if it smells rich, you may be getting too much gas at start up or left over from shutting down...

If it is not using oil, you might try a little SeaFoam to clean out the carb.

Hey, thanks!!!!! I appreciate the advice for sure. My machine dies, or did, when i got off the seat or raised off of it. Now, it doesn't. I wonder if it could be stuck someway so that it interprets my being off the seat or something...but I tried that before engaging the PTO. It had done its smoking thing and had sort of cleared up for the most part and the PTO was not engaged and I raised off the seat and it kept running. Did it several times. So, obviously, I could completely get off the mower with the engine only running and it would not die. Or, maybe that shutting off feature is only active when the blades are running along with the engine. I'll check the oil to see but had topped it off to the mark a couple of days ago and haven't run it more than 10 minutes. When a machine is not running right, I learned a looong time ago to shut it down ASAP. I always use that as a first rule...shut it down. Also, I will get some of the carb cleaner. Hadn't thought of that!!! Good point.

[ericj 1,578]

the seat switch will shut your tractor down if you get up off the seat with the motor running in gear and or blades running, safety issue. as far as the white smoke, were is it coming from, muffler, electrical, what part of the machine under hood seat were at under hood ? this will help determine what is happening

eric

[tthan43 1]

the seat switch will shut your tractor down if you get up off the seat with the motor running in gear and or blades running, safety issue. as far as the white smoke, were is it coming from, muffler, electrical, what part of the machine under hood seat were at under hood ? this will help determine what is happening

eric

The tractor USED to shut down if I raised up off the seat. It does not now. Also, the little red lite on the dash is on and it is labelled "seat switch".

The white smoke is coming out the exhaust pipe.

[Kelly 1,029]

We can not tell you to not replace the seat saftey switch, but to test the problem, you can jump the 2 wires that plug into the switch, what you do after that is up to you.

[tthan43 1]

We can not tell you to not replace the seat saftey switch, but to test the problem, you can jump the 2 wires that plug into the switch, what you do after that is up to you.

Thank you. I understand. I will give it a try and see if that helps.

[bo dawg 516]

The smoke kind of sounds like when you choke it too long or maybe the choke isn't opening back up all the way. But definently nothing to do with the seat switch. Doesn't make since that both things happened at the same time, thats strange to me.

When it comes to the switch, I myself do away with those, don't like'em.

[tthan43 1]

The smoke kind of sounds like when you choke it too long or maybe the choke isn't opening back up all the way. But definently nothing to do with the seat switch. Doesn't make since that both things happened at the same time, thats strange to me.

When it comes to the switch, I myself do away with those, don't like'em.

I jumped the wires and the problem still exists. As you know, there is a little switch built into the bottom of the seat and there is a white wire and a green wire that comes out and after about 8 inches ends in a plug. There are 2 wires, green and white, that comes from beneath the mower and up thru a hole and the other half of the plug is on the end of that wire. I disconnected the plugs and took a fairly heavy piece of insulated copper wire, bent in the shape of a U and forced one end into one hole with a blade in it and the other end of the U into the other hole with a blade in it. I started the mower, again, lots of smoke and eased the PTO lever forward slowly and the blades began to turn but when I tried to ease the lever all the way forward, the mower died. Weird, So, I guess jumping the switch is not the solution. Beats me.

[shootinok 15]

Can you confirm that the blades, belt and PTO turn freely with the engine off?

Also - try you last test again without the jumper wire - just leave the switch unplugged but make sure the wires are not grounding out.

one problem at a time ---

You can also get a multimeter to test that switch.

Now - I think we may be focusing on one thing and you may have a couple problems.

There is also a PTO safety switch

[tthan43 1]

Can you confirm that the blades, belt and PTO turn freely with the engine off?

Also - try you last test again without the jumper wire - just leave the switch unplugged but make sure the wires are not grounding out.

one problem at a time ---

You can also get a multimeter to test that switch.

Now - I think we may be focusing on one thing and you may have a couple problems.

There is also a PTO safety switch

OK.....I didn't think of that. Sounds logical. I will see if they will turn with the motor off.Yep...turn easily. And without the jumper, it still starts, with smoke ( I plan on getting some cleaner for trying to eliminate that) but, it starts with no jumper. I looked under the tractor today for signs of a rat chewing wires but saw nothing. It starts with no jumper tho.

[dsholler 54]

On my 414, the seat switch only kills the engine if the PTO is engaged. Is it possible your problem is with the PTO switch and not the seat switch?

[shootinok 15]

OK - more confusing electrical to read through... Go to the "Files" section. - oh never mind here is a link >>

download the electrical guide.

Your tractor should have a seat switch, a PTO switch and a neutral switch (which closes when the clutch is in)

on my '83 Workhorse in order to start, the seat switch is open, the PTO switch is open and the neutral must be closed.

Then to mow - the seat switch must stay open and the PTO switch can close - if you get off the seat that switch closes and the motor dies.

[tthan43 1]

On my 414, the seat switch only kills the engine if the PTO is engaged. Is it possible your problem is with the PTO switch and not the seat switch?

Hadn't thought about that. I will take a look at the owner's manual as there is an electrical wiring diagram. I did not know the PTO had a switch but I would guess it does and is some how tied in with the lever I push forward to engage the blades (PTO). Thanks...hadn't thought of that at all. That may be where the prob. is since whether the safety switch is unplugged or plugged or jumped, pushing the lever forward still killed the engine. I'll let you know tomorrow. Thanks again.

[tthan43 1]

On my 414, the seat switch only kills the engine if the PTO is engaged. Is it possible your problem is with the PTO switch and not the seat switch?

Hadn't thought about that. I will take a look at the owner's manual as there is an electrical wiring diagram. I did not know the PTO had a switch but I would guess it does and is some how tied in with the lever I push forward to engage the blades (PTO). Thanks...hadn't thought of that at all. That may be where the prob. is since whether the safety switch is unplugged or plugged or jumped, pushing the lever forward still killed the engine. I'll let you know tomorrow. Thanks again.

I loaded the link to the electrical diagrams and such. LOTS of pages. I am making a list of the pages I need to print out.

[tthan43 1]

Can you confirm that the blades, belt and PTO turn freely with the engine off?

Also - try you last test again without the jumper wire - just leave the switch unplugged but make sure the wires are not grounding out.

one problem at a time ---

You can also get a multimeter to test that switch.

Now - I think we may be focusing on one thing and you may have a couple problems.

There is also a PTO safety switch

OK.....I didn't think of that. Sounds logical. I will see if they will turn with the motor off.Yep...turn easily. And without the jumper, it still starts, with smoke ( I plan on getting some cleaner for trying to eliminate that) but, it starts with no jumper. I looked under the tractor today for signs of a rat chewing wires but saw nothing. It starts with no jumper tho.

Thank you for the link. Tons of pages so I am making a list of the pages that apply to my machine and will print them off. I'm not too good at reading schematics but I'll trace it down. The wires from my seat switch to the plug and beyond to down under the mower are white and green and the diagrams don't list them that way. But, I am going to take a close look at the seat switch and PTO switch to see if there is something there that I can run down. thank you again and I will keep you posted on this thing. I hope no one else has a problem like this. Electrical problems are really picky and elusive.

[woodchuckfarmer 333]

White smoke, the only thing i can think of that makes white smoke is a belt rubbing on something or slipping. id check my belts and pulleys.....Good luck .....Wayne

[tthan43 1]

White smoke, the only thing i can think of that makes white smoke is a belt rubbing on something or slipping. id check my belts and pulleys.....Good luck .....Wayne

The belts are all free and not in a bind. The white smoke boils out of the end of the little tail pipe extension of the muffler. It is like a smog machine but white.

[neil 2,409]

I had a similar experience with another make of tractor and this is only just a thought , i had gas making its way through to the oil sump whilst the tractor was sat and when i went to start the tractor, plumes of white smoke came out , so i made a few enquiries and was told that i could have a sticking valve .

Have you smelled the oil from the dipstick to see if this could be the problem . The oil will look very thin to touch as the gas will dilute the oil in the sump.

This is just part of a series of eliminations ,hope this helps

[tthan43 1]

I had a similar experience with another make of tractor and this is only just a thought , i had gas making its way through to the oil sump whilst the tractor was sat and when i went to start the tractor, plumes of white smoke came out , so i made a few enquiries and was told that i could have a sticking valve .

Have you smelled the oil from the dipstick to see if this could be the problem . The oil will look very thin to touch as the gas will dilute the oil in the sump.

This is just part of a series of eliminations ,hope this helps

Thank you for your reply. Never heard of that but I will test tomorrow. How did you correct the problem? When I checked the oil, it looked pretty much ordinary though. I did not smell it or notice any particular scent when I looked at the dip stick to see the level.

[bo dawg 516]

You didn't happen to grab the gas can thats mixed with oil for a weed eater or chain saw or something like that did you? If you're like me I have 3-4 gas cans for different tools. Just a thought! Maybe drain the gas all out and put in new.

[tthan43 1]

You didn't happen to grab the gas can thats mixed with oil for a weed eater or chain saw or something like that did you? If you're like me I have 3-4 gas cans for different tools. Just a thought! Maybe drain the gas all out and put in new.

Good thought but nope....I keep the mower gas in a 3 gal. container and the oiled gas for the weedeater is in a 1 gal thing. I've almost done that in the past so to eliminate that possibility I bought a great big container for the mower. that way there is no mistake. Thanks tho....I really do appreciate the responses. I 'ain't' thru yet tho. Gonna look at the switch schematics and try the carb cleaner for the smoke. It may eventually work out that I have to take the thing to a shop I always use for weird stuff. They are really excellent and sometimes the cost is zero when something simple is fixed. So, I don't have to worry about being taken for a ride. I usually don't resort to something like that unless I just simply cannot figure it out or don't want to mess with it.

[bo dawg 516]

You didn't happen to grab the gas can thats mixed with oil for a weed eater or chain saw or something like that did you? If you're like me I have 3-4 gas cans for different tools. Just a thought! Maybe drain the gas all out and put in new.

Good thought but nope....I keep the mower gas in a 3 gal. container and the oiled gas for the weedeater is in a 1 gal thing. I've almost done that in the past so to eliminate that possibility I bought a great big container for the mower. that way there is no mistake. Thanks tho....I really do appreciate the responses. I 'ain't' thru yet tho. Gonna look at the switch schematics and try the carb cleaner for the smoke. It may eventually work out that I have to take the thing to a shop I always use for weird stuff. They are really excellent and sometimes the cost is zero when something simple is fixed. So, I don't have to worry about being taken for a ride. I usually don't resort to something like that unless I just simply cannot figure it out or don't want to mess with it.

I recently got a 16hp tractor that had some smoke, but mosty on start up. I changed the oil and that thing smoke like a freight train no matter how long I ran it. So playing around I wanted to see where the throttle and idle/fuel settings were at on the carb since it really runs and idles so perfect. I turned both screws all the way down till they stopped, counting my turns as I went, and then ran them back up where they was, (which was real close to factory settings). I started the engine up and the smoke went away. I have less on start up now too.