Rescue Horse

[JamesBe1 82]

I picked up a D-180 off of craigslist. It had been sitting outside for a few years. Since I have a blown engine on my other D-180, I need a new engine. I thought that this one might be it. Not sure yet on that. Lots of parts were rusted together. I used a lot of PB Blaster all over it and freed up a lot of linkages. Tried to turn the engine over by hand, but it wouldn't budge. Removed the spark plugs and sprayed PB in the cylinders. Maybe tomorrow I can get it to turn.

Drained the oil from the engine, it was black, but at least there was no rusty water in it. I drained the oil out of the hydro, and it looked perfect - like honey. Changed the filter for a NAPA gold.

Went to drain the gas tank. It was about 1/4 full. Too bad it wasn't gas. I got the fuel line off the petcock. The petcock was clogged, but would just drip whether it was opened or closed. I took the gas tank off and poured it out in the driveway. Lots of rusty water, not a drop of gas. Flushed the tank several times till it ran clear.

What is the groups recommendations for cleaning gas tanks? Something about chains and strapping it to a wheel?

Thought I would check out the battery to see what I could see. Popped the tops, and there appeared to be water. Small amounts of debris fell in when I took off the caps. I added distilled water till the debris at the top overflowed and I cleaned it up with a paper towel.

Checked the voltage. 0.0V. Put the charger on for the heck of it. Nothing happened. I figured I would see bubbles or something. Checked the voltage - 9VDC. What the heck? Checked it on AC, and got 6V. Looks like I must have blown a diode in the charger. Nice, now I have something new to fix.

Luckily I have a spare battery that read over 12V, and a trickle charger that I am leaving on overnight.

Tomorrow, I am going to clean the carb and fuel lines. Maybe I can get the engine to turn over. I might have to pop the heads. I might pull the valve covers and see what condition the valves are in. Maybe spray then down with lubricant.

Sorry I forgot to take pics. I thought about it, but my hands were all covered in grease and I didn't want to get the camera all greasy.

[AMC RULES 37,132]

Well, tomorrow is another day, and...

[JamesBe1 82]

Interesting - When I was taking the real wheel off to replace the filter, I noticed that it had six lugnuts. My other D only has five. Checking the parts manual (they are both 106119), I find that the six lugnut configuration is what is called for. Note that the other D has AG tires.

Anybody know if they made any D-180's with five lugnuts on purpose?

[Hodge71 664]

I'll see ya Thursday morning and we can get this thing fired over amigo. Just make sure to turn it over by hand tomorrow. ALOT!!!! Its easier to fix something jammed up from turning by hand than it is to fix it after the starter bends everything up trying to fire it, plus by hand you can turn the motor both ways, the starter only goes one way. Clean the plugs good unless ya got new ones. Ill bring my butt and some help. She should fire up with out much cursing. I got a 1971 Mercury 6 hp outboard last year for free that sat out in a lean-to for 10 years without starting. It was frozen solid. I pulled the plug and filled the cylinder with Kroil overnight, put a breaker bar on my socket and moved it back and forth the next day until it broke free. Gradually moving more until it would turn completely over. Threw a new plug in it and some mix gas and it fired up on the 5th pull of the rope. We can get it bud...I cant wait to bring her to life.

To my knowledge, which can leave alot to be deired at times. There was never a D 160, 180, 200 with 5 lugs. All had 6. It sounds like the wrong hubs on it. Interestingly though my 1973 sale brochure shows the 18 auto with 4 lug wheels. I guarantee they used GT14 hubs on it becuase R&D didnt have a functioning tractor for the press photos. Plus theres a trailing set of reel mowers that must be 8 feet wide and has a hydraulic lift lines going to it from the tractor. Theres alot of other inconsistencies in the book . I may post it tomorrow and we can pick it apart

[bowtiebutler956 650]

I wish I lived a little closer, I would love to come help. There just something about getting something running, thats froze up, rusted up, and hasn't been used in forever, that is alot of fun.

Matt :flags-texas:

[JamesBe1 82]

I'll see ya Thursday morning and we can get this thing fired over amigo. Just make sure to turn it over by hand tomorrow. ALOT!!!! Its easier to fix something jammed up from turning by hand than it is to fix it after the starter bends everything up trying to fire it, plus by hand you can turn the motor both ways, the starter only goes one way. Clean the plugs good unless ya got new ones. Ill bring my butt and some help. She should fire up with out much cursing. I got a 1971 Mercury 6 hp outboard last year for free that sat out in a lean-to for 10 years without starting. It was frozen solid. I pulled the plug and filled the cylinder with Kroil overnight, put a breaker bar on my socket and moved it back and forth the next day until it broke free. Gradually moving more until it would turn completely over. Threw a new plug in it and some mix gas and it fired up on the 5th pull of the rope. We can get it bud...I cant wait to bring her to life.

To my knowledge, which can leave alot to be deired at times. There was never a D 160, 180, 200 with 5 lugs. All had 6. It sounds like the wrong hubs on it. Interestingly though my 1973 sale brochure shows the 18 auto with 4 lug wheels. I guarantee they used GT14 hubs on it becuase R&D didnt have a functioning tractor for the press photos. Plus theres a trailing set of reel mowers that must be 8 feet wide and has a hydraulic lift lines going to it from the tractor. Theres alot of other inconsistencies in the book . I may post it tomorrow and we can pick it apart

Thanx Jeff. Right now, the engine isn't turning. I haven't tried it yet today. Finally got back from some running around. I started cleaning the gas tank since it was sitting in the way. I have that in the oven drying out (wife isn't home of course). I'll hit it with some rust reformer tonite. I'm gonna try to turn the engine later today.

Seems that the only loose screw on the whole machine was the one in the center of the PTO. Go figure. When I tried to turn the engine over by hand yesterday, it turned about a quarter turn. Almost seems a shame to tighten the heck out of it, but that's the only way I know to turn the engine by hand.

Before I get to that, I gotta tear my battery charger apart and identify the diodes. One of them is bad for sure, so I might as well replace both.

After that, I'll see if I can turn the engine. The carb and fuel lines still need some attention before we can try to start it. Also, I need to add oil to the engine and hydro systems.

I wish I lived a little closer, I would love to come help. There just something about getting something running, thats froze up, rusted up, and hasn't been used in forever, that is alot of fun.

Matt

I know what you mean Matt. I love fixing things. The more broke the better. Dunno why some of us are like that. But I find it is a handy character trait to have. Especially nowadays with the economy.

[otrelwood 32]

you can use muratic acid to clean the tank out but make sure to wear rubber gloves and some eye protection

[JamesBe1 82]

you can use muratic acid to clean the tank out but make sure to wear rubber gloves and some eye protection

Thanx Otrelwood.

I wish I had read your post before I cleaned it with rocks, a couple of chains, and some soapy water. It didn't come out as nicely as I had wanted. At least I don't have to worry about getting rid of the old acid.

james

[JamesBe1 82]

Tried turning the engine over again today. Still stuck. Went to remove the heads. Taking the bolts off that hold the tins in place, I snapped four of the bolts. The threads were so rusty on one of them, that it just turned in place. Finally got them off, and removed the heads. They were a mess on the outside. Lots and lots of spiderwebs and corrosion. The pistons and cylinders look like they are in pretty good shape.

The scary thing was that it looks like the mice had created a Hilton in the flywheel area. Good thing I never got it to turn over. It was a solid mass of mouse debris. I shoulda taken a picture to scare you guys with.

Tried tapping the cylinders into the block the a piece of wood and a hammer. They moved the tiniest amount. I stopped there because I didn't want to bend anything in the engine. Sprayed the pistons down with PB and tried turning it by hand. Nothing. I didn't want to overtorque the PTO bolt. I might end up taking the engine off of the frame and putting it on a bench to work it over. Not sure if I am up to that.

Good thing I didn't pay a lot for this tractor. I'd hate to part it out, but I might have to.

Decided to clean up the gas tank earlier in the day.

Here are some after shots. It really wasn't in that bad shape on the outside. The trimlock was in such good shape still, that I am going to put it back on after I give it a good coat of paint.

If all else fails, you might see it on ebay to try to recoup some of my money.

Here are some general shots of the tractor. I wish I had hit it with a hose and air gun before rolling it into the shed. I don't really feel like rolling it down the hill to the barn where the hose and air gun are, then trying to get it back up the hill. It was a pain getting it there in the first place.

I found the pliers with the green handles under the gas tank when I took it off.

[JamesBe1 82]

Woohoo! Thanx to Jeff (hodge71) for his great help this morning. We got the engine unfrozen, and after fiddling around with it for a while, we got it to actually run. Not for very long, but it ran. I am very happy. The cylinders still had nice cross hatching on the walls (thanx for Jeff for noticing that).

Too bad a couple of the tins are completely rusted through and through. When we finally got it to run, all the mouse debris that I couldn't get out by had came out by centrifugal force. I think we almost got sandblasted (mouse blasted) by it.

Now all I have to do is take it off and clean it up and replace the missing tins, and install it on the other tractor. I can at least take my time rebuilding the other engine. I think this one is going to be my long term down to bare metal restoration project. After that, I will have to work on the deck. I might someday have a real nice mower. I'll post pics along the way.

[can whlvr 993]

good to hear about gettin her running,my last acquisition was frozen solid when i bought it(50 bucks),it turned out to be packed solid with mouse nests and nut shells,i woulnt trust that all the mess is gone,i blew up a 10 horse because of mouse nests,so id check to make sure all the crap is gone

[JamesBe1 82]

good to hear about gettin her running,my last acquisition was frozen solid when i bought it(50 bucks),it turned out to be packed solid with mouse nests and nut shells,i woulnt trust that all the mess is gone,i blew up a 10 horse because of mouse nests,so id check to make sure all the crap is gone

Yup. I hear ya. Since the tins are so rusted out, I am forced to take if apart. That will be my opportunity to clean it out more. Behind the fly wheel is going to be a pain.

[JamesBe1 82]

Got the gas tank refinished today. The trimlock that was on there was in such good condition, that all I had to do was wash it in the sink (when the wife wasn't home) with soap and water.

Here is the finished results. Yes, there are some drips on it. I am having trouble getting used to the valspar paint. Either it goes on too light, or when I spray it for enough coverage, it tends to run. Lots of solvent in the mix.

Anybody know of a cheaper alternative to the $50 gas cap for these types of gas tanks?

[JamesBe1 82]

Looking for input. I will be pulling the engine off of my rescue horse to put on my other D-180. The engine sat outside for a few years, and the tins are rusty and will get painted as well as replaced where necessary.

I really need to clean this engine. I was planning on using the purple stuff and a pressure washer fed with hot water. What are the potential problems that I should watch out for?

Also, I am going to take the opportunity to throw some paint at it. What shouldn't I paint? Should I maybe think about hitting it with rust reformer? Or would that be counter-productive when I paint over it with high temp paint?

[JamesBe1 82]

Oh yeah, one more question for the group. I took the carb off t clean it up and soak it in a pail of Berrymans for a couple of days. I removed the needles, and when I looked down the barrel, I noticed a little pointy thing sticking out. Turns out it was the tip to my idle needle. It broke off in the hole. I tried to push it out, but no go. It deformed quite a bit. I put the whole thing in the pail to soak and hopefully it might come loose after soaking, but I kinda doubt it.

Anyone have any advice for trying to get that out?

[ol550 830]

Bummer !!

[wheeledhorseman 574]

Been racking my brains over this one James. I assume the main threaded part of the needle came out completely and it was just the needle point that sheared off where it had bonded through corrosion to the tiny hole in the carb body.

Problem is the crud produced where dissimilar metals have corroded isn't necessarily going to break down with a solvent.

Tried to think of something that would attack it but not the alloy of the casting but couldn't come up with anything.

Then my mind went off in another direction......

The carb body is diecast so most probably made of ZAMAK.

If the needle is made of brass then as luck would have it ZAMAK has a significantly higher coefficient of expansion than brass (27.8 vs 18.7 in metric) Simply put, ZAMAK expands more than brass does when heated.

So heating the whole assembly may help to release the offending part.

That's the theory anyway but ZAMAK melts at just over 700 F so care is needed - using a gas torch would be too risky.

It is just theory - I've not tried it but if all else fails I'd use the oven in a cooker to warm it up slowly and evenly then try.

(Of course, make sure any solvents you've been using a long evaporated away and don't burn yourself on the hot carb!)

It's just a thought and someone will probably shoot me down for suggesting this.

Andy

[JamesBe1 82]

Been racking my brains over this one James. I assume the main threaded part of the needle came out completely and it was just the needle point that sheared off where it had bonded through corrosion to the tiny hole in the carb body.

Problem is the crud produced where dissimilar metals have corroded isn't necessarily going to break down with a solvent.

Tried to think of something that would attack it but not the alloy of the casting but couldn't come up with anything.

Then my mind went off in another direction......

The carb body is diecast so most probably made of ZAMAK.

If the needle is made of brass then as luck would have it ZAMAK has a significantly higher coefficient of expansion than brass (27.8 vs 18.7 in metric) Simply put, ZAMAK expands more than brass does when heated.

So heating the whole assembly may help to release the offending part.

That's the theory anyway but ZAMAK melts at just over 700 F so care is needed - using a gas torch would be too risky.

It is just theory - I've not tried it but if all else fails I'd use the oven in a cooker to warm it up slowly and evenly then try.

(Of course, make sure any solvents you've been using a long evaporated away and don't burn yourself on the hot carb!)

It's just a thought and someone will probably shoot me down for suggesting this.

Andy

That's it exactly Andy. The point broke off the needle and is stuck in the carb passage. I don't think soaking it in berrymans will be of much help, but it's worth trying as the whole thing has to go in there eventually. I have an oring pick set that has a nice right angle pick with a point on it. I will probably try to use it to push it out from the inside.

I like your idea of heating it. You certainly know how to think out of the box. I'm not sure I want to put it in the oven as my wife would rightfully have a fit from the smell. Also, I am sure that the carb cleaner has a flashpoint (I haven't looked it up). I'll probably find another way to heat it and then proceed to burn my fingers trying to fiddle with it. Oh well, I have done worse damage before.

Back in my old GC days, we had what was called a SMORC (SMall ORifice Cleaner). Basically a very thin very stiff wire for cleaning the GC jets. I sure wish I had one again. But thinking about that, I might take a pin or needle and bend it 90 deg and try to clean it out.

I must say, you are quick to comprehend my rambling description. Much thanx and praise.

James

[bobert94 38]

If you decide to part out your donar tractor i'm in need of a rear pto drive pulley, also have you thought of using a gas grill for a heating source it works for me& keeps me on good terms with the wife by not stinking up the oven. lol

[JamesBe1 82]

Thanx Bob. I will add you to the list of people wanting parts should I decide to part it out. Right now I am leaning towards a longer term project that I can take down completely and redo. This tractor definitely has one foot in the grave, but I think I can resurrect it and have a fun time along the way.

Excellent thought about the gas grill. If it gives off lots of fumes, then at least it's outside.

[wheeledhorseman 574]

Guess I must just be lucky that the wife's got accustomed to strange auto parts going into the oven or under the grill over the years.

Sounds like a great project, challenging yes, but to bring it alive again after being so far gone will be so rewarding if you can pull it off.

Good luck.

Andy

[JamesBe1 82]

Got my K482 cleaned yesterday. Used purple stuff, and hot water through the pressure washer. Messy, but effective!

After I let it dry thoroughly, I hit anything that was rusty or prone to rust with rust reformer.

Comparing it to the images of it when it was on the tractor, it is pretty much night and day. I think Jeff can attest to how bad it looked on the outside.

I let it dry overnight, and hit as much of it as I could with engine enamel. Looks like a regular engine again. Most of my tins are painted and drying, then I can start putting it back together again. I still need a few minor items like fuel line, a new key switch, maybe an odd bolt or nut here or there.

I painted the flywheel with rust reformer after wire brushing it. I have a pic or two that I may upload, or wait till I have it back together again. Nothing special to look at, just a big black round thing.

[JamesBe1 82]

So I thought I was going to put it back together today and attach it to the frame. No such luck. Not even by a long shot.

Put the the bottom part of the shroud on (correctly called the Baffle, Blower housing support), and was tightening the three bolts to the gear cover that hold it on also, and one of the bolts snapped. I wasn't even tightening that much. Of course it broke off at right about where the threads start in the block. Not pretty, but I have been here before.

I hunted down my easy-outs and my drill and set up to try to get it out. Got a nice hole started in the bolt and enlarged it to a size or two larger to fit the easy out.

Got an easy out that seemed to fit nicely and tapped it in slightly with a mallet to get the threads in nicely. Started turning, but it started coming loose.

Got the next size up easy-out and it grabbed nicely. Started turning, and it felt like it was grabbing, and then the easy out broke! Not a good feeling at all.

So now I am trying to drill that out. Easy-outs are notoriousely hard and difficult to drill. Looks like my foreseeable future is filled with "drill, baby drill!"

I guess I'm going to have to drill and try to retap it. Anyone got any other ideas?

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,350]

Maybe you need to run a tap in the threaded holes before installing any more bolts.

Just a thought.

Mike............

[JamesBe1 82]

Maybe you need to run a tap in the threaded holes before installing any more bolts.

Just a thought.

Mike............

Yup. Sounds like a great idea from now on. I guess this is my excuse to go out and get a tap and die set. Been meaning to get one, but never got around to it.