Martin 2,132 #26 Posted March 4, 2012 will it still run if you use the starter fluid like before? seems like something else is wrong or different carb isnt any good either....seeing that you said it did run before on fluid but couldnt get it to run on gas thru the carb normally. if nothing else went wrong, it has to be the carb. you said fuel was getting to the bowl ok. replacing the carb with a known good one should make it run. but do you know that the new carb is ok? is it possible to bolt either carb on a running engine to check if they are ok? just to make sure... you have consistent spark? you have gas to the carb bowl, regardless of which carb is on there? it runs/fires on fluid, as long as possible, with a squirt? if it does then everything else must be ok, if you lost anything else..ie spark it wouldnt fire/run. can you try to squirt a regular fine stream of gas in there to see if it runs? if all of this is ok it still has to be the carb. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunahead72 2,424 #27 Posted March 4, 2012 Pull the fuel line inlet off of the carb, and clean out the carb inlet, I have had one do the same exact thing on a c81 and a small piece of rubber fuel line worked its way up there and even with a two new carb kits I could not get fuel into the carb bowl After removing the nipple I blew air through the seat and a small piece of rubber come flying out. then all was good. An excellent thought! If the fuel line is old, you could have deteriorated pieces of rubber anywhere in there (especially with this new-fangled c**p they call gasoline these days), and you should probably replace the entire thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chesbaycruiser 83 #28 Posted March 4, 2012 So here's where things stand.... Initially, I felt pretty confident that I had a carb issue. However, given that I had the problem with the carb that originally came off the tractor, (rebuilt less than a year ago, working fine before the motor failed), then tried a completely different carb that was just rebuilt by my friend (who I'd call a Kohler expert) and had the same issue, I am now inclined to think that the carb is not the issue, or at least not the only one. With that in mind, I admit that I was pretty sure that when I tore the motor back down I'd find that even though I had been extremely careful, I had somehow managed to mis-align the timing marks. As you can see from the photos I posted earlier, that was not the case. So maybe I have spark, but not as strong as it looks to the naked eye? Tomorrow, (assuming my wife is not completely sick of me working on the thing), I will try a different coil to see if that has any impact. I'll probably also change out the points, just for good measure, even though these are less than a year old, were working fine before the failure, and show no signs of wear. Beyond that, I'm not sure what I'll do. I'll keep you posted.... ----------------------EDIT---------------------- Looks like we cross-posted! Scott, the fuel lines are relatively new, and gas is flowing through them fine, and the bowls on both carbs are filling. Martin, it's very hit-or-miss with either the starter fluid (which I really don't like using, especially in a freshly rebuilt, non-broken-in motor) or gas. Sometimes it will start and run briefly strictly on the gas coming from the fuel line, and sometimes from fluid or gas sprayed into the the throat of the carb, but it's not necessarily instantaneous like you'd expect. I have not been able to get it to run continuously. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martin 2,132 #29 Posted March 4, 2012 Pull the fuel line inlet off of the carb, and clean out the carb inlet, I have had one do the same exact thing on a c81 and a small piece of rubber fuel line worked its way up there and even with a two new carb kits I could not get fuel into the carb bowl After removing the nipple I blew air through the seat and a small piece of rubber come flying out. then all was good. An excellent thought! If the fuel line is old, you could have deteriorated pieces of rubber anywhere in there (especially with this new-fangled c**p they call gasoline these days), and you should probably replace the entire thing. yes, i wouldnt rule out the possibility of those o rings in the gas line fittings causing you grief as well. replacement of the tank to pump line and a good inspection of the hard line fittings between the pump and carb. wouldnt hurt to take a step back and regroup. then go at it one thing at a time, making sure that everything is accounted for and working as it should. spark first and then tackle that fuel delivery. i wouldnt just start replacing things though, take one thing at a time, make sure its doing its job. like the points, you probably dont need to replace them, i would however make sure they are clean and you have good spark at the point contact area when they separate with ignition on and also make sure the gap is in spec. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
can whlvr 993 #30 Posted March 4, 2012 good luck,sorry i missed the carb swap,didnt read properly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chesbaycruiser 83 #31 Posted March 4, 2012 good luck,sorry i missed the carb swap,didnt read properly No problem at all Don, I appreciate all the input! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woodchuckfarmer 333 #32 Posted March 4, 2012 Hows the compression ? Are the valves set right ? Its just a thought , good luck......Wayne Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specialwheelhorse 174 #33 Posted March 4, 2012 I would get a known to be good coil, codenser and plug wire and change them. There is a slim possibility that with very weak ignition it could fire on starting fluid and not on gas. another thought notice when the points just break (withplug wire off) Look at the crankshaft on the power take off end and the keyway should be straight up. Jim in Texas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specialwheelhorse 174 #34 Posted March 5, 2012 I would as well hot wire the coil. A piece of ignition wire attached to plus side of battery and an aligater clip on the end to attach to the plus side of the coil. An aligaterclip so it can be disconnected to stop the engine. Disconnect the ignition wire from the switch to the coil eliminating a glitch in the switch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chesbaycruiser 83 #35 Posted March 5, 2012 Well, the devil is in the details. I suppose you can file this one under "Helpful Things to Remember", or possibly under "Stupid Things People Do". Today I went out to my friends house to get the coil, etc. from the donor C-85, and while I was there I took some photos of the C-81 we picked up the same day we got the donor. Once armed with my backup parts and photos, I headed back to the B-80. As I was loosening the coil on my tractor and disconnecting things, I paused and thought "Hmmmmm....I wonder?" So I got out my trusty Droid and compared my setup with the photos I had taken. It's a funny thing....did you know that if you attach the points to the positive side of the coil and the ignition to the negative side, you'll get spark and intermittent ignition, but a tractor that won't run? I didn't either, but I do now! That's right...this whole ordeal was due to a couple of crossed wires, or what I like to call "operator error"! I have to tell you that although I'm really psyched that it's running now, in hindsight I feel pretty thick-headed! I looked at that coil a dozen times, but in my head it looked right and I missed it every time. (In my defense, so did everyone else who looked at it too!) Sooooo.....that mystery is officially solved. Now all I have to do is get the governor adjusted correctly (I'm reading a book on voodoo and black magic to help with this) and all will be right with the world once again. Many thanks again to everyone for all the help and suggestions! Now I'm off to pick up some chicken bones and goat's blood so I can get busy on that governor... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specialwheelhorse 174 #36 Posted March 5, 2012 Well WHOOOO HOOOO ! ! I laid awake half the night last night thinking about this. Sure glad you got it,You will sure treasure this engine. Jim in Texas Check my last post and notice where I talked about connecting the hotwire. I just knew it had to be in the ignition as much as you had checked and double checked fuel and carb,s Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyhawkTL 19 #37 Posted March 5, 2012 If you have good compression you have no mechanical problems. Next is ignition. Put a timing light on it while cranking and see if it flashes ( Don't worry about timing yet - ANY flashing shows the ignition is Hot) - or use a sparkplug gap tester and look for a spark. (same thing as holding the wire close to the block) I'll bet your ignition is fine. Next and last is fuel. AFTER doing these checks; try to start it normally - then if it doesn't, pull the spark plug right then and see if its dry or flooded. Let us know - my guess is dry and caused by the fuel filter - pull the line at the carb and check for flow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyhawkTL 19 #38 Posted March 5, 2012 Sweet - nice find Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martin 2,132 #39 Posted March 5, 2012 Well, the devil is in the details. I suppose you can file this one under "Helpful Things to Remember", or possibly under "Stupid Things People Do". Today I went out to my friends house to get the coil, etc. from the donor C-85, and while I was there I took some photos of the C-81 we picked up the same day we got the donor. Once armed with my backup parts and photos, I headed back to the B-80. As I was loosening the coil on my tractor and disconnecting things, I paused and thought "Hmmmmm....I wonder?" So I got out my trusty Droid and compared my setup with the photos I had taken. It's a funny thing....did you know that if you attach the points to the positive side of the coil and the ignition to the negative side, you'll get spark and intermittent ignition, but a tractor that won't run? I didn't either, but I do now! That's right...this whole ordeal was due to a couple of crossed wires, or what I like to call "operator error"! I have to tell you that although I'm really psyched that it's running now, in hindsight I feel pretty thick-headed! I looked at that coil a dozen times, but in my head it looked right and I missed it every time. (In my defense, so did everyone else who looked at it too!) Sooooo.....that mystery is officially solved. Now all I have to do is get the governor adjusted correctly (I'm reading a book on voodoo and black magic to help with this) and all will be right with the world once again. Many thanks again to everyone for all the help and suggestions! Now I'm off to pick up some chicken bones and goat's blood so I can get busy on that governor... just goes to show that sometimes its the things you least expect. also shows that sometimes you really do need to take a step back and re assess the situation. you ended up finding the problem by accident and im sure you will file that info for the future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smoreau 658 #40 Posted March 5, 2012 :woohoo: That is great!! Don't feel too bad as it has happened to the best of the best. I did that back in the day and was for a long time. We all kive and learn every day and kniw we have to help out with our tracors :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AMC RULES 37,130 #41 Posted March 5, 2012 An awesome display of perserverance...you just can't keep us down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbbahner 27 #42 Posted March 6, 2012 Yep, been there, done that. Had a 14hp that would miss out after half throttle. About wore out the high/low speed screws trying to dial it in. Adj. points, fuel filters, new plug, etc. etc. Changed the coil wires around the way they should be and ran fine. Congrats on gettin her fixed! Tom B Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
