1533 alternative (maybe)

[Martin 2,133]

this started evolving in meadowfield's gt14 thread and thought, all things considered starting this as a new topic was needed.

heres where we are at right now, (i think this is most of it)......

sorekiwi posted........

Posted Yesterday, 09:23 PM

Gotta love how clean that ATF keeps the inside of the gearbox.

I've never been inside a GT14 transmission. Interesting that they use a needle bearing on the side of the diff housing. The 1276 box I have opened up at the moment has the normal ball bearing.

martin posted.....

Posted Yesterday, 09:29 PM

is the axle a diffferent size where it goes through the bearing? the id of the needle bearing looks alot bigger than that of the roller. do the hydro center sections have something to do with the id?

i spy something with the center in this pic that might have something to do with the difference...

sorekiwi posted.....

Posted Yesterday, 10:06 PM

Looking at the IPL for the GT14 transmission, the part #'s are different for the end caps of the 10 pinion diff (when compared to the numbers for a 5060 transmission).

I dont have a 10 pinion diff available to look at, but from hazy, alcohol affected memory the end caps on the GT diff pictured do look larger than what I am used to seeing.

Now what I am wondering is if the needle roller bearing pictured is 2 1/2" OD and 1/2" wide, so it would fit in a "normal" case. Then a hardened sleeve could be pressed onto a "normal" diff, and this used to replace they now NLA ball bearing in a "normal" box?

Mark, do you think you could take some measurements of that bearing each side of the diff? or even the Torrington part # if you can see it?

meadowfield posted......

Posted Today, 02:51 AM

It is definitely a big bearing - around 2.5" and yes a needle bearing. I guess from early trials they had worked out there is a massive amount of torque and potential for wear. My tyres are scrubbed down to only 1/4" of tread through skidding !

martin posted......

Posted Today, 09:55 AM

sorekiwi, on 25 February 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

Looking at the IPL for the GT14 transmission, the part #'s are different for the end caps of the 10 pinion diff (when compared to the numbers for a 5060 transmission).

I dont have a 10 pinion diff available to look at, but from hazy, alcohol affected memory the end caps on the GT diff pictured do look larger than what I am used to seeing.

Now what I am wondering is if the needle roller bearing pictured is 2 1/2" OD and 1/2" wide, so it would fit in a "normal" case. Then a hardened sleeve could be pressed onto a "normal" diff, and this used to replace they now NLA ball bearing in a "normal" box?

Mark, do you think you could take some measurements of that bearing each side of the diff? or even the Torrington part # if you can see it?

mike not sure if this is relevant info or not regarding your question......

http://whtractor.15....ic=15171&st=100

scroll down a little about 5th post down the 8048 (same as bearing in ipl on the gt14) is referred to as a b-348 torrington.

it shows up at motion industries search b-348

http://www.motionind...&KeepThis=true

sorekiwi posted.....

Posted Today, 10:47 AM

Martin, on 26 February 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

mike not sure if this is relevant info or not regarding your question......

Thanks for that Martin. Sorry Mark we are hijacking your thread a bit here. But the bearing search may be of use to you if you decide you need to replace that big one. If we go much further with this I will start a new thread.

I got to that same bearing number at Motion Industries last night (by a different path!) and $20 from them is a whole lot nicer than the $175 listed for the Toro part from Partstree.

Now to find a ready made inner race to step up the journal on the sides of the diff from 1 1/2" to 2 1/8"

I just uploaded a Service Bulletin to the "Files" area about some alternate axle bearings used during a shortage of the 1533 bearing. I wonder if this is the same bearing?

http://www.wheelhors...s-c-series1pdf/

[Martin 2,133]

mike,

ive been searching high and low for the 8052 race bearing or an alternative and keep coming up empty.

how hard would it be to machine them up and get them hardened?

i guess at the moment i will just keep looking and see what comes up..

im also searching with dimensions as well.... im assuming the width is 1/2" same as the 8048 bearing (b-348 koyo) ?

theres always this..........

8052 RACE BEARING $137.87

:ROTF:

[sorekiwi 761]

That one off stuff always ends up stupid expensive to produce. Something like that would have to be rough machined, sent for heat treat, then have its ID and OD ground to finished size (They move about a bit during heat treat).

Its not hard to make one or two for yourself, but once you have to start paying for machine-shop time it gets expensive in a hurry.

I havent had time to look into this further today (due to a 7 year old wanting to play in the snow most of the day). Is the 8052 the inner bit from the D series?

[Martin 2,133]

it shows up on the gt 14 ipl as number 12.

[Martin 2,133]

even if nothing comes out of the search for this race bearing replacement,

there is always the possibility of using the 8048 (or a new b-348) and 8052 combination as a 1533 replacement, if you can source the 8052 from a parts or junk trans, or hoard them like a pack rat.

in general is that right?

[Keith 21]

even if nothing comes out of the search for this race bearing replacement,

there is always the possibility of using the 8048 (or a new b-348) and 8052 combination as a 1533 replacement, if you can source the 8052 from a parts or junk trans, or hoard them like a pack rat.

in general is that right?

Can a bushing be created and used for some NLA bearings? I have an alloy case Chrysler NP833 transmission which does not have a bearing or bushing on the countershaft ( most of these have a bushing ). After many years the countershaft eggs the case after which some people modify the case and install a bushing. The NP833 is the same gearbox used for the 426 Hemi, its reasonably strong, no bushing in some of them. I think for light duty use for a collector tractor a bushing might work. Works fine for the most part. Can machinists repair stuff like this? I have a small South Bend metal lathe made in the same town as the Wheel Horse. If I could not source a bearing I'd modify a similar bearing, or make a bushing and make do. Or is that not practical in this scenario?

[Don1977 604]

Thanks for that Martin. Sorry Mark we are hijacking your thread a bit here. But the bearing search may be of use to you if you decide you need to replace that big one. If we go much further with this I will start a new thread.

I got to that same bearing number at Motion Industries last night (by a different path!) and $20 from them is a whole lot nicer than the $175 listed for the Toro part from Partstree.

Now to find a ready made inner race to step up the journal on the sides of the diff from 1 1/2" to 2 1/8"

I just uploaded a Service Bulletin to the "Files" area about some alternate axle bearings used during a shortage of the 1533 bearing. I wonder if this is the same bearing?

http://www.wheelhors...s-c-series1pdf/

(coppied the above)

If you look at the drawing the transmission case was machined deeper for the thrust washer, and that the thrust washer is still required with this case with a new 1533 bearing.

[sorekiwi 761]

If you look at the drawing the transmission case was machined deeper for the thrust washer, and that the thrust washer is still required with this case with a new 1533 bearing.

Yeah, I noticed that. But looking at the GT14 pictures, there doesnt seem to be a thrust bearing used on them (I havent gone back to the IPL to check) so maybe the thrust bearing isnt needed?

I havent had a chance to look into this anymore since the weekend, but I have been thinking about it. The thrust bearing is a good idea because any side loads on the rear end of the trailer are transmitted through the diff housing to the bearing on the opposite side. The needle roller bearing doesnt have any thrust bearing capacity, but the 1533 ball bearing really doesnt have much more either. And the Wheel Horse engineers didnt feel it was necessary to use one on the GT14's (which was their biggest and heaviest tractor at the time). So I'm not sure why they suddenly thought one was necessay for the WorkHorse models referred to in the bulletin.

There is another post on here discussing this (from a while ago):

[Duff 206]

OK, I'm not the brightest bulb in the fixture and this may have already been discussed somewhere else, so please bear with me. If Toro no longer offers the exalted 1533 bearing, then would they have too much heartburn about revealing who made them for them (unless we already know that)? As long as Toro was selling them and making a few (?) bucks I could see why they've been protecting their source or contract, but if they feel the financial return isn't worth their handling them any more, maybe they'd release their death grip on production and let someone from here try to negotiate with the manufacturer? I don't know squat about machining, but I do understand that tooling up from scratch to make a bearing is probably exorbitantly expensive. But maybe, just maybe the manufacturer still has the set-up stored somewhere? Probably a crazy, pie-in-the-sky idea, so when everyone's done laughing.........

Duff :thumbs:

[kpinnc 12,504]

I think SKS was the last manufacturer of the 1533.

At least the Power Point of the last WH production run implied that...

[Duff 206]

If someone here has the engineering background to do some research, it looks like we could plug the dimensions of the 1533 into one of the search engines at the SKF web site and maybe track this critter down? I just don't have the knowledge or background to navigate it!

http://www.skf.com/portal/skf/home/products?contentId=000392&lang=en

Duff :thumbs:

[sorekiwi 761]

I think SKS was the last manufacturer of the 1533.

At least the Power Point of the last WH production run implied that...

You mean this pic Kevin?

Unfortunately the IPL for the "Classic GT" lists the diff bearings as the 111199 bearing which is the later metric bearing. It has a 40mm ID, but I havent been able to find a width or an OD quoted anywhere for this bearing. I suspect it might be a plain old $10 6008 bearing but until someone can post dimensions of this later bearing, I cant be sure.

It might be very possible to do some machining on the cases and make up an inner sleeve to be able to use this one in an early transmission.

The only manufacturers I have seen on the 1533 bearing have been Nice and Pacamor (spelling??). I havent tried recently, but over the years I have probably spent 20 hours searching for an alternative. No dice so far

[kpinnc 12,504]

Yeah, that's one of them. And I obviously fat-fingered the name. I meant SKF, not SKS. Sorry about that...

[WH854 44]

I think SKS was the last manufacturer of the 1533.

At least the Power Point of the last WH production run implied that...

You mean this pic Kevin?

Unfortunately the IPL for the "Classic GT" lists the diff bearings as the 111199 bearing which is the later metric bearing. It has a 40mm ID, but I havent been able to find a width or an OD quoted anywhere for this bearing. I suspect it might be a plain old $10 6008 bearing but until someone can post dimensions of this later bearing, I cant be sure.

It might be very possible to do some machining on the cases and make up an inner sleeve to be able to use this one in an early transmission.

The only manufacturers I have seen on the 1533 bearing have been Nice and Pacamor (spelling??). I havent tried recently, but over the years I have probably spent 20 hours searching for an alternative. No dice so far

This link says the 111199 is still avaliable

http://www.rcpw.com/...x=69&search.y=4

Chas

[sorekiwi 761]

This link says the 111199 is still avaliable

http://www.rcpw.com/...x=69&search.y=4

Chas

Yes that bearing is still available, but it wont fit the earlier transmissions.

[can whlvr 993]

i was wondering about the newer number,when i look up my 86 308 its a 1533 my 1087 414 is 111199,i thought maybe it was a misprint,or maybe since then they stopped the 1533 ?