Electric Clutch

[BillM2 0]

I have a 1973, 14hp model 10430 WH with an electric clutch that has stopped working. It worked fine last week. I've checked all the connections and they seem to be OK. How can I test to see what the problem is (if there's power going to it for example) and if I need to replace, how difficult a job is it? Many thanks for your input.

B)

[refracman 167]

Bill,

First make sure the connection to the clutch is clean and they are makeing a good connection. Then check the ground wire comeing from the wiring harness to the frame has a good connection you can check this with a ohmmeter. Then using a voltmeter check and make sure you have 10-12 volts at the clutch connection comeing from the switch. If does have proper voltage and the ground is good the clutch could of falied.

If your lucky enough to find another, NEVER use a bolt to fasten it to the retaining bracket, use a pin with a hairclip. If a bolt is used it will cause the winding in the clutch to fail.

If you cannot find another electric clutch you can adapt a standard clutch setup off a pre 1973 tractor.

good luck!

O ya

stick around theres a lot of good folks here!

[CasualObserver 3,408]

I have an email friend who needs some help with his electric clutch. I have no working knowledge of them, can you guys give some troubleshooting tips and advice that I can pass back to him? I figure this will be a good topic to move to the FAQ when all said and done.

Thanks.

My electric clutch isn't engaging. It worked fine last week. In your experience, have you had this problem and what did you do to fix it? I've checked all the connections and they seem fine. The battery starts the mower right up. Do these clutches burn out? --Bill

Edit:

I didn't realize Bill had joined up here at RedSquare! After posting this topic, I see that Bill had started his own thread on this problem, I will merge the two. Bill!!

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,512]

Most electric pto clutches have an air gap adjustment. This gap should be checked to see if it falls into spec, which would vary with the clutch model itself. Most have 3 adjustment locations that need to be check and readjusted.

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,512]

Also, before I forget again, these clutches need a certain amount of current to work properly. If the battery is low and weak, that will have an effect on the clutch. Sorry, this and the air gap is about all I got. B)

[TT-(Moderator) 1,145]

I can tell you that they are an electro-magnetic design similar to the air conditioning compressor clutch on most vehicles.

There is a wound coil of sorts mounted inside them and when energized, a magnetic field is created, which normally pulls the "driven side" against the "drive side", thus engaging the PTO.

The coil should have two leads - one is ground and one is for 12VDC application power. (Some clutches only have a single power lead and are grounded through the mounting arrangement.)

The coil can usually be checked with a meter. (depending on the design) The old 60's/70's non-adjustable electric clutches should have continuity between both leads and neither lead should have continuity to ground.

I believe the PTO clutch on my old 1990 210-5 was the same 2-wire deal and would be tested the same way.

Your friend should try a test light at the wire connector at the clutch to be sure there is 12VDC power there when the switch is in the ON position. There shouldn't be any safety interlocks that prohibit engagement power, but the ignition key will probably need to be in the ON or RUN position. Some models may also have an inline fuse for the PTO clutch circuit.

NOTE: A 12VDC jumper wire directly to the clutch lead should determine if the problem resides in the wiring or the clutch coil.

Post the tractor info if you can, and we'll take it from there.

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,512]

In light of TT's technical detailed post, I feel obligated to include this link of Ogura's pto clutch operations and troubleshooting to redeem myself a little. Okay, I cheated, but what's one to do in comparison to TT's knowledge. Here's the link:

Ogura's PTO clutch Operaion

[BillM2 0]

I'm the guy with the electric clutch problem. I tested the volted on the battery (12.8 volts) then tested the current to the clutch (around 15 volts?). I reconnected the wires and the clutch engaged and seems to be working fine. Thanks for your input but wondering if the voltage is too high as the problem? Maybe I wasn't getting an accurate reading, but that's what my multi-meter read.

Bill

[combatmp29r 27]

Bill and a couple quick questions. What is the tractor in question, and was it running when you came up with the 15 volt reading?

[combatmp29r 27]

Thanks Jason now you only confused the poop out of me there. Thought I had lost it and was selective reading these things LOL.

So Bill now my only question is was the tractor runing when you tested the clutch and got the 15 volt reading?

[BillM2 0]

Yes, the tractor was running when my multi-voltmeter read around 15 volts.

[BillM2 0]

I'm back with the electric clutch problem. I tested the voltage to the clutch with t he engine running and it came to 15 volts. I've made sure the connections at the toggle switch are tight and they seem to be. I've also checked to see if the ignition switch, which you also need to turn to the middle to engage the clutch, is tight and they too seem OK.

I've checked the ground wires and they too seem to be well connected.

I was mowing when I went over a large bump and the mower stopped working. This is driving me a little crazy.... B)

[TT-(Moderator) 1,145]

Did you check for power at the connector at the clutch?

Have you tried a jumper wire from the positive battery terminal directly to the clutch? (with the engine off, you should hear an audible click when the coil "pulls in")

[BillM2 0]

I connected a wire from the postive terminal on the battery to the leads to the clutch and hear nothing. The engine was off. Is the electric clutch bad?

With me getting 15 volts to the lines to the clutch, could that have done something. According to my multimeter, it's showing that level of voltage. I'm not all that skilled at these things, so what could be putting more voltage to the clutch?

Also, how difficult is it to change from an electric clutch to a manual? What do I need? Again here are the details on my WH:

WH Model # 10430 8

1973

C Series

Kohler model engine K321S

spec 60137d

serial # 4209306

engine built in 1972

Thanks!

[TT-(Moderator) 1,145]

Generally, those electric clutch coils are rated for 12 to 18 VDC, so the unregulated 15 VDC should not have hurt it.

If you did not hear a "click" when power was applied, the coil could have burnt up. The last check you can perform would be to uncover the clutch leads and check for breaks in the wires. If you remove the mower drive belt, you can try spinning the PTO pulley by hand when power is applied - just for verification.

Changing over to a manual PTO clutch would require quite a few parts. If you can't find any locally, I have some pieces from a C-120 that will get you started. (I'm in PA though.)

Your tractor is actually known as a 1973 "14 Automatic", but most of the parts from the 1974 to 1977 C series tractors will interchange.

If you want the particulars, I can round you up a list.

[BillM2 0]

TT -- I removed the belt and with the engine running and power to the clutch, tried spinning it and nothing happened. Seems strange to me that it could be working just fine, then shut down.

I also checked the wires and there appears no break in them.

If you have a parts list for changing over from an electric to manual that would be greatly appreciated. Let me know what you have and we'll work out something.

How difficult task is it to remove the clutch from the engine. There's a center bolt -- do you simply remove that and proceed with adding the parts?

Thanks very much for your input!

[TT-(Moderator) 1,145]

Sounds like it's dead.

Once the bolt is removed from the end of the clutch, you should see internal threads in the clutch hub. I can't for the life of me remember the size and pitch right now, but they are at least 5/8" or bigger and I'm positive they are fine thread. You will either need to purchase a bolt (not a "cheapie" either) to screw in the hole in the clutch hub, (oil it up well and use an impact wrench to run it in against the end of the crankshaft to pop the clutch loose) or use a rather large jaw puller. (the PTO clutch is bad anyway, so you aren't going to hurt it.)

Here's an IPL drawing of the components required to install the manual PTO clutch:

The clutch disc (#14-53) will bolt to the tractor drive pulley currently mounted to the crankshaft, and everything else either slides or bolts on after it.

Note: all the parts to the right of the PTO clutch disc in the drawing (14-103/104/106/107) have been determined unnecessary, and therefore are no longer used.

[catman81056 3]

Hey Bill, use the 5/8 bolt. I tried taking the electric clutch off my electro 12 with a gear pulled and bent the backing plate and it still wouldn't come off. If you do switch to the manuel clutch system I'd like to get your electric clutch from you. Just tell me what you want for it with shipping to zip; 60957

5/8-11 bolt at least grade 5, 3" should be long enough

[BillM2 0]

Here's something new. This morning I took TWO wires, one from the battery postive and one from the negative sides and connected to the clutch wires and the clutch moved back and forth. It didn't engage or spin, but moved with each touch.

What do you think that could mean...? B)

[TT-(Moderator) 1,145]

Sounds like you might have a ground problem.

If you see movement at the pulley, the coil is pulling the clutch in. (you might not always hear it on the older clutches)

The ground wire from the clutch plug should have a ring terminal that bolts to the engine block. Make sure the connection is clean and tight.

The ground cable from the battery should also be fastened to the engine block somewhere. (usually on the top belt guard bolt, or sometimes on one of the rear oil pan bolts.) Make sure you have a good ground connection at the engine and that all engine mounting bolts are tight. :whistle:

[Brrly1 1,146]

BillM2 There is also one on ebay right now. That is going to end soon. It says it is a working clutch. Burly :horseplay: :horseplay: :horseplay:

[BillM2 0]

Still working on that electric clutch. Today when I wanted to hook-up my trickle charger to my battery, with the power off to the tricklet charger, I noticed a slight spark when attaching the clips. I've never seen that before -- usually when attaching to the battery while in the mower, I would see no spark, but today yes.

Would that indicate something? If so what?

I've gone to all the ground points on the tractor and the bolts all seem tight.

:banghead:

[BillM2 0]

Mystery Solved!

I went through every wire, connection and ground on my WH. I then decided I would cut away the plastic connector that connects the electric clutch with the wiring on the tractor. And, it works fine! The connector and the wires showed no signs of wear or tear and power was coming from the tractor to the connector. I've spliced the wires together and it's running great.

Many thanks all especially TT for his help with this puzzle. :banghead:

[Teddy da Bear 11]

I've gone to all the ground points on the tractor and the bolts all seem tigh

Seeing that they were tight was not all TT wanted you to do.

You need to remove each connector/connection and scuff it up with sand paper until it is bright again. And do the same with the mating surface where it attaches.

Then you will have eliminated the possability of corrosion on those contact points.

[linen beige 14]

Seeing that they were tight was not all TT wanted you to do.

You need to remove each connector/connection and scuff it up with sand paper until it is bright again. And do the same with the mating surface where it attaches.

Then you will have eliminated the possability of corrosion on those contact points.

Cleaning the connections with sandpaper (or steel wool) will probably take off any remaining zinc coating that was on them to slow corrosion. After you clean them up coat them with a dab of dielectric grease to keep the corrosion at bay.