D-200 replacement mufflers

[JamesBe1 82]

I finally got an email back from K&T. All it said was:

"sorry

this muffler is no longer available

Thanks,"

Don't you just hate it when places advertise for sale items that they don't even have.

[slufoot733 70]

OK, I finally received my mufflers. First off the quality isn't that great. One had the inlet pipe welded at an angle which right off the bat caused a problem. That is not the venders fault since he didn't make them (but I would have inspected the product a little more closely and NOT sent out a part like that). Secondly, the 1-3/8" inlet had to be opened up a little by pounding a piece of pipe into it. The very rim of the inlet pipe curved inward ever so slightly and would not slip over the exhaust pipe. Third, the outlet is not as long as I hoped it would be. I will have to get an extension.

I had both mufflers installed in about an hour and a half. Here's a shot before I started but without the original mufflers

I had a bugger of a time removing the elbows cause they have been there forever.

Here's a shot after I had them both installed.

The dent in the upper right is my fault. I had to pound the mufflers onto the pipe. I used a piece of wood as a cushion against the muffler but I managed to dent one a little.

These next two shots show the top and bottom of the mufflers. The top is solid against the grill frame. I may remove them and flatten the muffler top a little to give some non-contact clearance. The bottom shows the outlet pipe is short. I was planning to get a couple 90 degree turnouts anyway so I'll get some that will fit.

After I was done I started the engine and let it idle for about 10 minutes. The paint on the mufflers stinks pretty bad so I can't wait for it to burn off. They are not as quiet as I had hoped for but way better than none.

I'm sure there are better mufflers available out there somewhere. I needed them sooner rather than later so I went ahead and got these. I believe they will serve the purpose. If someone is not in a hurry for mufflers I would continue the search.

Kevin

[JamesBe1 82]

Very nice work Kevin. Nowadays, you have to make do with what you got. I admire your inventiveness. I am curious to see of the top of the muffler lets the grille frame get too hot. Also, I'd like to see how you manage the bottom of the mufflers. All in all, very resourceful work.

[slufoot733 70]

Thanks James. I'm concerned about the heat issue also. Might not be a problem in the winter but come summer it could be very hot. I will definately do something about it.

I have to check around on the outlet extensions. First stop will be my local muffler show to see if they have pipe small enough and can bend it for me. I'll post pics when I get something.

[JamesBe1 82]

I have been thinking about trying to adapt Stanley FO-11 mufflers for a D-Series. Here are the specs:

The canister length seems good. The D's don't give you a lot of room to play with, maybe an inch or so extra.

The inlet diameter is wider than normal, but I was thinking of using bushings and adapters to match it to the tractor. Not yet sure what is needed, or what is available.

The outlet is wider than normal, but I measured the hole in the shroud, and it is about 2" I don't see why that should be a problem.

The only thing I will have to do is find a way to close off the end.

Anybody see any potential problems or solutions? If this works out, then those of us who want close to OEM exhausts have an option instead of paying the ridiculous toro price for new mufflers.

[JamesBe1 82]

Or possibly a Walker 21040:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product__18290190-P_15_R|GRPEXHAAMS____?zoneAssigned=1

[1maidenfan 202]

These are built using some Briggs mufflers purchased from Maple Grove Distributing in Galveston, IN. A couple pieces of black pipe, a little welding and some time on the mill, these fit, looked and sounded close to stock. Its been a while since I made these but you might try and contact MGD and see if they still have them in stock.

Those look awesome , great job :wicked:

[JamesBe1 82]

I ordered a pair of Walker 21040 off of the internet this weekend. I'll post pics of before and after.

[slufoot733 70]

JB, I'll be real interested to see how they work out. I ordered a Walker (don't recall the number) but the body was too long. Otherwise they were a nice muffler. I hope the ones you ordered fit well for you. Post some pics when you get them installed.

K

[wheeledhorseman 574]

Also watching with interest James. Mine are ok at the moment but one day they'll need replacing.

Andy

[JamesBe1 82]

The UPS guy just dropped the Walker 21040 mufflers off. I took the box to the shed and opened it. To my surprise, they did not fit. The shell length was too long. I measured it and it was 12 3/4". WTF? I doublechecked the Walker catalog, and they list the shell lenght at 9 5/8". The label on the box said Walker 21040.

Here is a pic of the offending muffler:

I went through the Walker catalog to see if possibly they had the wrong ones in the box. BTW, the box was closed with packing tape. I could not find anything in catalog to match the mufflers. I pondered it a bit, and looked over the muffler for a part number, but there was nothing to identify it. Then it hit me - it says Stanley on the side of the muffler! I went though the Stanley catalog, and they turn out to be Stanley IH-1 mufflers. Son-of-a-b!

I ordered these from Summit Racing on ebay. They got my last order correct (Sunpro temp gage), and I hope they will get my pending order right (Sunpro sending unit).

I will send them an email shortly, and tell them to take them back. Luckily ebay and paypal are pretty good (from what I hear) about taking care of the buyers.

Now I need to find a source for the Walker 21040 mufflers.

[slufoot733 70]

JB, I ran into the exact same problem at NAPA. They had a Walker muffler in their catalog stating the body was just a hair over 9" which was perfect. They ordered two for me. When they arrived we opened one up and I immediately saw they were way too big. We measured the body.....12 3/4" long. I don't get it. Don't these nit-wits know who to use a tape measure?

Sorry this didn't work out for you. Contact Summit Racing. They have a good reputation and should make it right. I would point out that THEY said it was 9" and since you ordered based on their dimentions they should cover your shipping costs.

Good luck,

K

[JamesBe1 82]

Hmmmm. I would bet that the ones that you got said Stanley on the side.

I wonder if it isn't a common industry practice to substitute the Stanley mufflers for the Walkers. I sure hope not.

I sent an email to summit racing, but haven't heard back from them. Their policy says that the buyer should pay return shipping costs. Although it's probably not all that much, it is enough that it erases any savings I saw from buying from them in the first place.

I wonder if the Walker muffler people would be interested to know that places are taking their competitors product, repackaging it in their original packaging, and selling it as theirs. I wonder how the Stanley muffler people would feel about that too.

I sure hope that I can find the original Walker 21040 mufflers somewhere.

[wheeledhorseman 574]

Strange indeed that two separate suppliers are supplying the same wrong product. I think I'd raise the issue with Walker as they could be responsible for the substitution if they've had a manufacturing problem or are discontinuing them.

The 21040 muffler is certainly listed with the shell length of 9 1/2 " on their site http://www.walkerheavyduty.com

Andy

[JamesBe1 82]

Thanx Andy.

You are absolutely correct about the Walker muffler dimensions. I'd hate to see that they are filling their orders with Stanley mufflers, but such could be the case.

The boxes for each separate muffler appear to have been opened and taped shut. On closer examination, in addition to the Walker 21040 number, it says IH-2. I guessed these mufflers to be the IH-1 mufflers from the Stanley catalog. The IH-1 and IH-2 are identical except for some accessories. Odd that the box would have both vendors part numbers on it. Hmmmm, the plot thickens.

I heard back from Summit Racing this morning. All they wanted to know is if the word Stanley was written on the box or the muffler. I clearly explained that it was on the muffler, and the box said 21040 (I hadn't noticed the IH-2 at the time). I haven't heard back from the since. At least they responded in a timely manner - very professional.

I was looking around the interwebs for another source of Walker 21040, and one of the first google hits is for Advance Auto Parts. Interesting - the list the shell length at 13.5"

It may be that Walker is behind it all, and the advance auto parts folks are on top of it with updating their specs to match what Walker is shipping them.

I hope that this doesn't turn out to be a hunt for old style 21040 mufflers.

James

[wheeledhorseman 574]

Frustrating if only the longer length is now available as those are good original looking shells.

You're lucky though in a way in that mufflers are so easy to obtain in the US even if you can't get quite the right size.

Here, nobody seems to do them any more, probably as there's very little demand given that newer machines use engine specific units rather than systems put together from standard parts.

If you can only get the longer ones then it could be a case of some 'cut and shut' fabbing.

Andy

[JamesBe1 82]

Good point about the engine specific parts. I think that this tends to increases sales of repair parts, and makes it more difficult for the aftermarket manufacturers to keep up with the changes. That's one of the things that I like about these older machines. No B.S. in the engineering. They didn't always plan properly for maintenance and repair, but now adays, it's doesn't seem to even be a consideration. These were designed and built before the days of planned obsolescence.

I went to a dealer to see about having my crankshaft cut on my other K482. He hadn't done that kind of work in a long time, and didn't know anyone who did. He said that you couldn't even get .010 piston rings for the newer mowers as nobody bothered to repair them anymore.

Ok, I'll stop preaching to the choir. I don't yet have the tools (and skills) to cut and reweld them, but I think that is a great idea. I have one other possible option. Walker makes a 9 1/2"ish muffler with 2" inlet. It might be just a simple matter of getting reducers to adapt them to 1" outlets. I think before I got that route, I'm gonna make more of an effort to see if I can get the actual Walker 21040 mufflers somewhere.

I might send an email to Walker to see what's up with the possible changes. Sometimes dealing with the large companies is like yelling into the void. Don't know if they even hear you.

[JamesBe1 82]

I wrote out an email to the Walker folks this morning explaining the odd happenings to myself and to another member here, but figured I would wait till tomorrow to send it in case I get a positive response from Summit Racing in the meantime. Towards the end of the day, I sent another email to Summit Racing asking for a status update and if they had the correct mufflers. Surprisingly, I heard back from them already. Here is what they said:

James,

Thank you for your email. I will go ahead and have the correct mufflers drop shipped directly from Walker for you. You should see them in a few days. I will also issue a UPS call tag and have UPS come out and pick up the incorrect mufflers. I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

We appreciate your business.

Sid

Summit Racing Equipment

And shortly after I got another email:

James,

Thank you for your email. I have placed the order with Walker for the correct mufflers and will have them shipped directly from them to eliminate and further problems.

We appreciate your business.

Sid

Summit Racing Equipment

Well, even though I am mufflerless at the moment, I think good old Sid deserves a pay raise. Of course, that can be rescinded if I don't see mufflers by the end of the week.

Just thought I'd give you folks a status update. I'll let you know about the fit shortly after I get them.

James

[wheeledhorseman 574]

You gotta hope now that Walkers don't ship you a muffler that's too long even if it is direct this time!

Nice touch from Summit though.

Andy

[ericj 1,578]

hi i saw this thread but hadn't taken the time to read it. i went through this a couple of years ago when i dug my dad's D200 out of the barn where it had set for over 19 years. the mufflers had rotted off. i ran into George Smith at the wcc he owns smith auto in St Lawrence NY his phone # is 315-384-4600. I called him and he said he still has some of the walker mufflers 21040. the walker's is what i used the over all length of the body is 11 1/4 but they did work on my D. tight fit but worked. use freeze out plugs for the plugs in the bottom. over all length needs adj.. I 'll try and see if I can get some pictures one of these first chance I get.

Eric

[JamesBe1 82]

Thanx Eric. If what I get direct from the Walker folks have changed (I hope Andy hasn't jinxed it!), then I might be calling George.

I'd like to see what kind of freeze out plugs you installed and how your assembled it all. I was planning on using a 1" pipe nipple and cap. Your way sounds like it might be easier.

BTW, does anyone know who actually manufacturers the mufflers for Toro?

[otrelwood 32]

probably the cheepest bidder of the day

[coldone 35]

BTW, does anyone know who actually manufacturers the mufflers for Toro?

I think the originals were nelsons.

[JamesBe1 82]

BTW, does anyone know who actually manufacturers the mufflers for Toro?

I think the originals were nelsons.

Now that you mention it, I think you are right.

I went through their catalog, and the 016457T muffler seems to match the D-Series muffler dimensions.

[JamesBe1 82]

Well, it seems that Walker is now in the business of selling Stanley mufflers.

Summit Racing had Walker drop ship the mufflers directly to me. As soon as I saw the boxes, I knew something was amiss.

I opened the boxes, and there were the same type of mufflers as before complete with the Stanley name embossed on the side of them. ****!

I guess I'm going to try to run these as stacks. I spent the evening putting on the FEL to see is there is enough clearance. I don't have any hydraulics hooked up, so I am unable to raise the FEL to see if it might hit anything. But with the FEL in the down position (I don't have the bucket attached), there might be enough room, but the right side might be a bit tight.

Since I have two mufflers, I might as well run stacks on either side. The left side looks like it won't be much of a problem.

Anybody got any good pics of how they ran their pipes in a stack configuration?