Windolph in the snow

[srukke 18]

I have just went through mine and took photos all through the process. The only thing I didn't rem ove and work on were the clutches. I even had to replace an axle in the gear reduction box. I kept track of what type of bearings go where and found all of them are still available and indexpensive. I'll help where I can.

[getsmartt 1]

thanks srukke as I start going through this thing I will need all the help I can get.

[eb in oregon 28]

It appears to be a Windolph Model "C" that has been "heavily been breathed on."

And only a suggestion, but I'd sell it and run far away.

 

Unless you have lots of spare time and funds, you will have a hard time restoring it to original. Spare parts are realistically speaking unobtainable, the modified parts (i.e. the front sprockets, frame, and drive train) will take considerable time and funds to return to original configuration. Replacement track chain is non-existant. The internal parts of the rear axle are "Gold" for a tractor that is "almost" there, so there is a market for those.

 

The original transmission is the same used on the Crosley (I do happen to have a re-built spare) which was a three speed foreword box. The engine was a two cylinder Wisconsin.

 

Good luck with your project. 

[srukke 18]

Eb is correct. It will be an extremely expensive and long process to get it back in working condition and if the internals are in need of replacement or repair the parts are not available. Unless you own a machine shop or want to spend a small fortune it will be a futile effort. I have watched Eb on his and he has helped me on mine. I was lucky with mine as it needed minimal parts and effort. Minimal meaning several months, 3 tear downs of the tracks. Two tear downs of the gear reduction boxes and lots of misc. work. I had to do lots of machine work on the rollers, found a damaged axle and gears and I didn't even have to get into the clutches.

 

You do not want to get into the clutches.

[getsmartt 1]

Thanks for the advise guys, and I have no intention of trying to restore it, would like to take a shot at getting it running, and see if it would be serviceable.  As of right now I have about $350 in it (300 for the crawler and about 50 in gas).  So basically right now I don't feel too bad about what I have spent versus what I have. Parting it out is certainly an option if it proves to be in unusable condition once I get it running.  I have since discovered that the hood is not an original part, and I'm not even sure how they actually attached it (if they did).  

[srukke 18]

It's worth more than what you have into it in parts. Just saying. I restory antique outboards and can't stand to see old machines and motors get scrapped. I applaud anyone who is willing to take a project like this on.

 

Trying to figure out why someone would grind off the teeth of the sprocket. What in the world were they doing with it. Mine does not have the original Wisconsin engine either but it still has a Wisconsin, just newer and more HP.

[eb in oregon 28]

It's worth more than what you have into it in parts. Just saying. I restory antique outboards and can't stand to see old machines and motors get scrapped. I applaud anyone who is willing to take a project like this on.

 

Trying to figure out why someone would grind off the teeth of the sprocket. What in the world were they doing with it. Mine does not have the original Wisconsin engine either but it still has a Wisconsin, just newer and more HP.

There is a large difference between an outboard motor and a tractor. If a part of an outboard motor is broken, a replacement can be manufactured with far less expense than say the steering clutch pack of a crawler tractor. The axles of the Windolph total four, and each has splines which are expensive to manufacture and consist of two completely separate designs, the upper and the lower.

 

The transmission is a Crosley gear box, which can be found. The engine is a Wisconsin which can still be found. The master clutch is no longer produced, and a direct replacement is not available. To change the master clutch will take some serious head scratching and funds.

I'm all about "saving" old machinery, until it gets silly. Buying a pile of parts and then investing several thousand dollars to just get something that moves around makes no sense. I've been into mine four times. I loath the thought that I might have to do it again. The steering clutch forks are the weak part. If they break one is faced with having new parts made, and as a person with 25 years of machine shop experience I can say that won't be cheap. And I wouldn't trust a welded one as far as I could throw it.

 

It's all a matter of time and money, and how much of each one is willing to invest.

 

Oh yea. That looks like a Windolph Model "B" now that I look at it again. Slightly smaller than the "C" with a single cylinder Briggs and Stratton (iron block) and and maybe the same rear axle. At least what I think I've learned from research. If you part it out and it's the same axle, I'm interested.

Edited March 30, 2015 by eb in oregon

[getsmartt 1]

 

Trying to figure out why someone would grind off the teeth of the sprocket. What in the world were they doing with it. 

 

Yeah not sure about that either, the gentleman I bought it from actually ran it that way, and didn't even realize that it was supposed to have teeth on it.  My biggest concern there would be throwing the track, Both front sprockets turn freely although they botk appear to have some positive camber, so perhaps a slightly bent axle, maybe the teeth interfered with the track and instead of trying to correct the camber they ground the teeth off... still guessing at this point of course.

 

You can see the camber here... I think...

Edited March 30, 2015 by getsmartt

[getsmartt 1]

well got some more pictures taken, discovered more things.

 

Have not found any identifying marks on the tranny as of yet, but it definitely appears to be a 4 speed forward tranny, and appears to be close in size and style to the 3 speed original.

Note that the input and output shaft appear totally different than the original 3 speed. and subsequently several modifications have been made to make it work, including adding a yoke to the differential shaft.

also clutch shaft/bearing assembly has been modified

also noted shaft and complimentary wear on the clutch splines.

 

more pics of the mystery engine, if either of you have an idea of what this is I would be happy to hear them.

 

Also still skeptical of this being the original hood, in a mock-up it appears to be way too long, and lacks the 'taper' at the bottom for mounting...

 

[sdhdcouple 133]

All I have to say here is:

 

I have to have one of these, they are way to cool for me not to have one.

[getsmartt 1]

All I have to say here is:

 

I have to have one of these, they are way to cool for me not to have one.

Might be willing to sell you a pile of parts if you make it out to the Spokane Washington area LOL

[srukke 18]

I wonder what parts are interchangeable between the B and C, assuming yours is a B. Here is my completed C.

[getsmartt 1]

I wonder what parts are interchangeable between the B and C, assuming yours is a B. Here is my completed C.

 

That is a sweet looking ride, quite a few physical similarities between that one and mine. Obviously I'm not sure if mine is a B or a C, have not seen any examples of a B as of yet to be able to determine differences.  And the 'modifications' to this one make it difficult as well.

[srukke 18]

If yours is a B it might not have had a hood. 

 

 

[getsmartt 1]

Looks like the major differences between the B and C were strictly engine size and the hood. 

[eb in oregon 28]

http://www.wheatfarm.com/crawler/index.html

 

I'm thinking your entire drive train (engine, transmission and drive shaft) are modifications and totally different from original whatever model tractor it is.

 

And as the hood has a hole for a radiator fill cap, it isn't original to the tractor either.

 

I haven't a clue what that engine is besides it being an air cooled, two cylinder flat head. I thought it might be a Continental at first, but now I'm thinking not.

Edited March 30, 2015 by eb in oregon

[eb in oregon 28]

All I have to say here is:

 

I have to have one of these, they are way to cool for me not to have one.

 

http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/grd/4947186635.html

[getsmartt 1]

Well through a little research I have discovered what the mystery engine is, it is an Onan CCK/CCKA/CCKB series

 

And a little bird just informed me that it is a CCKB, so 20 horse and 3900 RPM, likely too many RPM especially not knowing what the transmission ratios are.  I do have an old one lung Wisconsin setting around the shop, will have to check and see what specs are on it.

Edited March 30, 2015 by getsmartt

[eb in oregon 28]

I'd use the Wisconsin. You would have to "clean" the frame and fabricate new motor mounts, but I'm betting the only reason Windolph used the B&S was a few bucks in price. And maybe you could get that hood to fit.

 

However, that entails the type of clutch and transmission, and the mounting brackets for those.

 

Humm, gonna be quite a ride. I'll be following this like a slug on a window.

Edited March 31, 2015 by eb in oregon

[getsmartt 1]

Went and checked the Wisconsin earlier and it is an old AEH rated at 5.9 HP at 2200 RPM, so the RPM is spot on, but the power is on the low side even for a B.  Might go ahead and mount it up, (provided it still runs) and see if the old beast is even worthy of further work.  On the plus side I can likely sell the old Onan, or part it out to recover all of my current expenses... of course I have a hard time getting rid of stuff, there will always be another project that the Onan would be perfect for LOL.

 

Still trying to figure out what the 4 speed is, did some searching today, but can't really find anything that looks like it, and still cant find any identifying marks on it, though it could be an old MG tranny for a bit, but the case is wrong, although the innards look pretty close.

Edited March 31, 2015 by getsmartt

[getsmartt 1]

I seem to recall reading somewhere, maybe even here that the chain for the tracks was standard mill chain used in the logging/milling industry.  Makes me curious if there is still sprockets available for this pitch that could be modified to replace my front sprockets.

Humm, gonna be quite a ride. I'll be following this like a slug on a window.

 

Slug will likely be very apt as I don't think I will be jumping on this as quick as I first thought.

[eb in oregon 28]

I seem to recall reading somewhere, maybe even here that the chain for the tracks was standard mill chain used in the logging/milling industry.

 

Ah Ha, but I've since discovered the pitch (the distance between the two bolt centers) is not the same. Same pattern, different pitch. Requires different sprockets.

Edited March 31, 2015 by eb in oregon

[srukke 18]

You can use 1-inch schedule 40 steel pipe to redo the small rollers in the chain. Cut 1" pieces off the pipe and split them and open them, place around the chain joint and hammer closed. Worked perfect on mine and protects the part of the chain where the pin goes through.

[eb in oregon 28]

I was incorrect about the Model "B" having a Briggs and Stratton engine. I should have looked at the information I have instead of an online posting.

 

Both had a Wisconsin engine according to the factory literature.

[getsmartt 1]

Ah Ha, but I've since discovered the pitch (the distance between the two bolt centers) is not the same. Same pattern, different pitch. Requires different sprockets.

 

So I went out and took some measurements today, and ended up with a pitch of 3.35 (measured over 10 links) I am sure there is some stretch involved.

 

Now through my research on chain I have come to the conclusion based on barrel diameter and width, that this was likely a double pitch chain.  Of course I didn't come up with any double pitch chain that came close to this. 3 inch and 3.5 inch are available (although the 3.5 inch is a british standard chain).

 

 After further research I did find a single pitch chain of 1.654 (3.308 double pitch), barrel diameter of .88 (close to the .89 i measured) and width of .97 (close to the .99 I measured), that is still being manufactured by Grizzly, and they make the accompanying sprocket as well.  

 

Now since I would either have to weld up the front sprockets or replace them, if the sprockets designed for the 1.654 chain is compatible I could go that route.

 

 But I wonder if going with a standard 3.0 double pitch chain (welding on angle iron for the tracks) and sprockets would be more feasible in the long run. I found 10 foot lengths of C2120 conveyor chain (3.0 pitch) for about $160 from RollerChain4Less.com.  Barrel diameter is a bit smaller .875 width is 1.0, so fairly close to original but would require 4 new sprockets (which I have not priced as of yet).  

 

Just brainstorming and keeping track of notes.