Windolph in the snow

[Jduncan 0]

 

So we got to the steer clutch pak and found the throw-out bearing retainer snap-ring ridge busted off. I think it started with rusted togather c

lutch disc's and someone pulled to hard to get steer clutch to release. Hmmm so I guess we could try to get that peice "cast iron" heated up then attempt to weld a ridge back on the end.

[eb in oregon 28]

You might do better making a new "end piece" out of a good steel (or what ever it might be) tubing and cutting the end of axle off and welding it.

[eb in oregon 28]

I'm just thinking here "Jduncan", but that piece is steel. Cast iron (regardless of grade) will not take the powerful and repeated pressures that entail the function of the clutch. It's steel. It can be TIG welded quite nicely. I'd stay away from MIG or stick welding unless you want to do a lot more work. But, as it is steel, you could make a replacement end and weld it on. If done correctly it would work as well as OEM stuff. Other wise its weld and re-machine.

 

As I'm still in the process of tearing mine down (between other jobs and relaxing), I haven't access to mine yet. I'll let you know what I think in a day or three.

[eb in oregon 28]

Sorry i didn't post these sooner. I believe that this is the original and correct throttle cable routing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know, That's a heck of a hydraulic tank you have. My hydraulics are all added later  (and it was installed "easy," all welded) and is just a power steering pump (GM I think) and I have no separate reservoir for fluids. Seems to work OK. Say, does that drive shaft have forward and backward movement between the clutch and PTO housing? Do you have anything on that drive shaft that keeps it from moving foreword or backward? Or does it just float? Mine has a good 1/4 inch, and I don't like that. Makes that nylon clutch gear float back and forth. I was thinking about a spacer or spring to minimize longitudinal movement.

 

I've pretty much got it all torn down. I've taken off everything up to the engine, and re-installed (finger tight) my clutch and drive shaft to the PTO housing. I had to unbolt the engine to get the PTO and drive shaft out. I've removed the additional "aftermarket" PTO and reinstalled the clutch and drive shaft up to the original belt drive PTO housing. My gear box is really messed up. A new cluster gear, and two others are toast. And I may just think about replacing the two (at least the main that holds the cluster gear) shafts because of wear. And I may need the top box re-built. I don't like the wear on the shift forks, though I have it on good authority that "their good enough" to last as long as I'll use the tractor.

 

I'll be looking at the rear axel and thinking if I want to do something with that bent fork, and that's a scary thought. I'll also be looking at the clutch springs. A friend and I think someone "pooped up" the clutch springs when they were rebuilt, which exerts a lot of pressure on everything else. Let alone making it harder to drive. If someone else with one of these tractors had some information regarding spring height, wire diameter, and maybe compressed spring pressure, I would be a happy camper.  .

Edited March 13, 2014 by eb in oregon

[Jduncan 0]

eb... You are correct! The steer clutch throw out bearing retainers are steel. We were able to weld the broken snap ring ridge with no problem. We completed the weld and removed all the rust from friction and steel clutch plates. Cleaned clutch splines and coated with anti-seize. Works awesome. Not to heavy of a pull on steer lever at all. But then the right side felt so "tough" to disengage steer clutch we were worried we would bust off the snap ring again or snap release fork shaft. So we went after the right side. Cleaned and serviced everything going in and out. Welded a reinforcement to snap ring ridge. Steers wonderful. Off to work this little sucker. We also got creative with an old Troy Built tiller I had laying around. One of my boy's at work had some tilling to do. I will post a photo for your enjoyment.   

[Jduncan 0]

Added a Troy Built Tiller. Will lift to turn.

[eb in oregon 28]

You don't want to twist, bend or break that shaft that controls the clutch release fork. It's 5/8ths 8620 steel, heat treated to about 54 to 56 Rc and welded into the lever. Not being an engineer (and I talked to two that know about this sort of thing) if one doesn't follow a specific process, which is a little tough to research, one may not be totally successful. I made my third set out of 3/4 inch 8620 and it's pressed and pinned using a shoulder bolt.

 

Really, I don't think my left side is bad, but the right side is a problem. And that side has what I believe is the bent fork. Still though I'm curious what someone else's clutch springs measure just to compare.

 

Interesting thing with the tiller. And of course one would need to lift it to turn. Probably rip the darn thing off if you didn't lift it.

[eb in oregon 28]

I've reinstalled the clutch after removing the aftermarket PTO that had been installed sometime in the past.

 

 

I've busted three gears, the cluster gear,second gear, and the main shaft gear.

 

 

Now it is sitting and waiting for further attention.

 

 

And we'll be taking a closer look at the clutches and shift forks. This morning I got my Bridgeport running again. It had a bad bottom sheave on the motors drive cone assembly. It had been "fixed" by Micky Mouse one time, and Micky's repair let go. So I ordered and installed a new sheave assembly and replaced the bearings in the front drive cone assembly. It sounds like new. So, now that the Bridgeport is "up" again I can maybe spend a little more time on that "time and money pit" that is my Windolph.

Edited March 13, 2014 by eb in oregon

[eb in oregon 28]

 

Added a Troy Built Tiller. Will lift to turn.

 

 

I like your "power accessory," but I'm wondering; as it is much narrower than the Windolph, aren't you just going to drive over and compress what you just tilled? I'm sure any tilling is better than no tilling, but I think you might end up with a little more fork and rake work than you figured on.

Edited March 14, 2014 by eb in oregon

[eb in oregon 28]

This morning my friend Richard and I removed seven of the clutch springs for examination.

 

I've got two different springs, one type is a little shorter than the others (not quite 3/32nd of an inch) but of a larger diameter wire, and one less coil. But just from squeezing with the fingers seems far more powerful than the slightly longer springs.

 

I'm going to try to check them with a calibrated spring checker in the next day or two. I think I can use one from the shop I retired from last year. Once I check the spring pressures, I'm going to locate an entire set of new springs and replace them all. Maybe I'll go to a lower spring pressure, but I haven't made up my mind as of yet.

 

What would be immensely helpful is if one of you guys has access to a couple of clutch springs and could let me know overall length (within about a 64th or so) and outside diameter, the wire diameter itself, and the number of coils. Of course if you could also measure the compressed spring pressure, that would be better yet. If that's not possible I'm just going to have to make my best guess.

 

I've also been on the phone with Butch from Service Motors of Indiana. I'll be ordering a kit for my top cover and the new gears and such in a day or so. One of the things that I've been puzzling over is the front bearing of the transmission. Basically there was nothing holding the bearing in place when the gear box was assembled. While there are three bolt holes for a retaining cover on the front of the transmission case, the cover wasn't present upon initial disassembly. And after measuring the hole in the back of the PTO housing I don't believe there was one ever there. The outside diameter of that cover is at least 1/4 of an inch (best guess) larger than the existing bore in the PTO housing. So, what held the bearing in the case so it wouldn't "walk" forward from the transmission case? The first time I made a sleeve that fit over the input shaft between the bearing and the pinion gear in the PTO. I think it did the job, but I'd still like to know what was there originally, if there was some sort of retainer.

 

Anyway, there's where I'm at today.

[Jduncan 0]

Hi eb Maybe this steer clutch photo will help. We have the case all together and Windolph is out tilling well. So I cant measure for you. All the springs were the same for sure. Also were pretty "heavy" to compress. So heavy in fact we welded the release bearing retainer snap ring into grove, As one had snapped ridge (earlier photo) and the other snap ring had popped off ridge. Hope this helps  Just a note.. We are have a bit of trouble now with trans. Seems the shift fork is throwing gears "to far" and getting stuck. Gears still look good but will have to look at stops and such. More to come on that. 

[eb in oregon 28]

 

 Just a note.. We are have a bit of trouble now with trans. Seems the shift fork is throwing gears "to far" and getting stuck. Gears still look good but will have to look at stops and such. More to come on that. 

 

 

I'm convinced that is the problem that led to my ruining most my gears. The wear of the front shifter forks engagement slot allowed me to catch two speeds during shifting and when I put power to the tractor it pretty much stripped off most the teeth.

 

One of the interesting things I like about your picture is the "stops" on the rear axle for your clutch levers. Mine are reversed. And I've looked for pictures that show those stops repeatedly. What I've discovered is that one can see them installed in either direction. I thought at first mine were wrong, but when I turn them around there isn't enough travel to work the clutches at all.

 

[Lawn Ranger kid 14]

My clutch stops are like Duncan as well it gives the clutch plenty of dissengagment

[eb in oregon 28]

Either of you guys have a PN for the throw out bearing your using? I think mine may be incorrect.

[nbsproducts 0]

 

 

 

Does anyone have a photo of the transmission and how it mounts.  The model C that I got, someone cut the gear box out with a saws-all.

[eb in oregon 28]

This is from "My Picture Gallery."

 

I hope it is what you need. You might "cruise" thru the gallery, there are a bunch in there.

 

[Lawn Ranger kid 14]

Ill have to look for the bearing. I think I still have the old one. Ill let you know.

[Lawn Ranger kid 14]

eb look closely at picture #3 in this album. It shows the stops like yours i think.

 

http://public.fotki.com/deanvp/tractors/windolph/crawler/p1010005.html#media

[eb in oregon 28]

Here's some "Windolph Porn" that another owner sent me. This thing may have a few mechanical problems, but it sure looks good.

 

 

 

And regarding the "clutch stops," as mentioned after months of looking for any information I could find, I've looked at numerous pictures of other tractors. These "stops" (if they indeed are such) have been mounted in either direction from the pictures I've been seeing. Yet what occurred to me the other day was that if my throwout bearings are incorrect, it can change things drastically. First, the springs compress to "solid" in about .300 travel, to the clutches themselves probably only move about .250 (one quarter of an inch) or less. My throwout bearings have a large radius on the ID of the outside part which seats against the retaining ring. So, this large radius causes the bearing to seat further to the end of the clutch hub, thus lessing the travel of the clutch even further and increasing the travel of the clutch fork. At least that's how I see it. If one of you others haven't a PN for your bearing, I'm just going to have to take my best shot. I'll see what I can find that appears to be correct, but those bearings are expensive, so a mistake would be bad.

 

And if someone has a throwout bearing in hand (on which there is no PN), I can send a "chart" in which one can insert their dimensions and I can go from there. Trust me here, any help would be immensely appreciated. I've already spent hours looking for this information.

Edited March 18, 2014 by eb in oregon

[Lawn Ranger kid 14]

Here are all the old bearings I have. Only two have part numbers.

 

 

[eb in oregon 28]

Thanks "kid," your efforts are very much appreciated. However I seem to have failed to make my self clear, and that's my fault.

 

The bearings you have spent so much time and effort to display for me appear to be the bearings from the reduction boxes. Bearings such as those are meant for radial (spinning) and constant forces. Throwout bearings are meant for linear forces (thrust). Throwout bearings are specifically designed to function for short periods of time and to reduce friction when transmitting force from one object to another in a straight line, such as the engagement and disengagement of the clutches.

 

This is a shot of the outer piece of the clutch with the throwout bearing in place.

 

 

This is a shot of the type of throwout bearings I have. The large radius on the outer side cause's the bearing to locate further out on the bearing portion of the axle, which I think changes the mechanical relationship of the activating forks of the clutch assembly.

 

 

This is a shot of my forks, one of which I believe is bent, and the thought of trying to "fix it" makes me ill. While it looks really funny in the picture, that is merely a matter of angles. Both tips of both fork are square to the bore of the shaft that they pivot on. However the angle is less than the fork in back.

 

 

Once again "kid," I truly appreciate your efforts.

 

Regards,

 

Eric

 

 

Edited March 20, 2014 by eb in oregon

[Lawn Ranger kid 14]

Yeah i was figuring they were not the right ones but i thought i would try.  mine is all together right now and I cant get to it for accurate measurements at the moment. I guess when I had the clutches worked on they didn't replace those bearings

[eb in oregon 28]

Yeah i was figuring they were not the right ones but i thought i would try.  mine is all together right now and I cant get to it for accurate measurements at the moment. I guess when I had the clutches worked on they didn't replace those bearings

 

But of course. Welcome to "Windolph World."

[eb in oregon 28]

Does anyone have a photo of the transmission and how it mounts.  The model C that I got, someone cut the gear box out with a saws-all.

 

The transmission is a Borg Warner T-92. Apparently it is the smallest transmission B-W ever made. It was used in several applications I've read, but specifically the Crosley automobile. A gear box can be found for a few hundred, but pull the top cover and have a look before you buy. On the Windolph it bolts to a PTO housing (which can be "live" or not), which has a bolt flange on the left side and a bracket on the right. The whole drive train is splined together, so you must either pull the back axle or the engine to work on anything in between. After tearing mine down twice I'd say pull the engine. However realistically speaking the rear axle can be removed as an assembly. It's heavy though.

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2014 by eb in oregon

[eb in oregon 28]

A gentleman that I've just made the acquaintance of in the last couple of months via email, and lives in Poulsbo, Washington, just mailed me a copy of a Windolph Tractor manual. Those Model "C" pictures I posted are his tractor. We had exchanged a few emails regarding our tractors and how to work on them. I'd mentioned I needed part numbers for a particular piece and he mentioned he's had some numbers. I replied that I wouldn't mind having those numbers and a few days later a large envelope shows up with a manual, at his time and expense. Dana, you are truly awesome and I owe you. I tried to email you to tell you how grateful I am, but I've only the email "addy" routed through Craigslist. It has expired.

 

 

 

Edit: Dana gave me a telephone call last night and I got his email "addy," so we are good. This morning I sent him a couple of pictures of the Windolph data plate screwed to the front of the tractor. I'm telling you what, we get any more of these tractors showing up and maybe we can pool enough information so we can make them all "good." I will say though that I wish like the dickens that a maintenance manual could be located. The owners manual is good, but it lacks some things.

Edited March 29, 2014 by eb in oregon