uh oh

[Cole 25]

Good news and bad news, Ive almost got the b-100 finished i got the k241 engine started today and mannn it sound nice except for a LOUD knock. i have rechecked the end-play on the crank and the cam and the amount of "plays" are in spec. soooo, when it was running i noticed i needed to adjust the throttle cable because it was running like it was getting ready to blow up at probably 5500 rpm then it came to me.... why doesn't to governor slow the engine down. so I'm thinking i have a problem with the gov. and that's where the knock comes in place. Or could it be the new rod i got from the rebuild kit because before i rebuilt this the engine it was perfect so i guess i should've listened to my father "If It Ain't Broke Then Don't Fix It". is it the gov. that"s giving me the knock or the rod???

[rmaynard 15,525]

Did you have the crankshaft machined to match the new rod? I don't believe the governor gear could cause a knock, but a rod that is a few thousandths oversized for the crankshaft would.

[MaineDad 85]

Did you re-install the throttle stop and adjust the rpm's?

[Cole 25]

yes i did adjust the throttle stop and i didnt think i had to have a standard crank machined to a standard rod, why would that be :eusa-think:

[Kelly 1,029]

Well the rods come under sized then you turn the crank smaller to fit the new rod, BUT did you check to see if the crank had ever been turned down before? say it is .010 under size and you put a std. rod on it, that would knock, these old tractors you never know if they have been rebuilt or not it is best to check sizes before ordering parts.

Check your valves also I've had a few that knocked pretty bad and was valves out of adjustment.

[Cole 25]

well i got it fixed today, it turned out to be the rod, the rod that came in the rebuild kit was 3x bigger than what it shouldve been (jap crap) so i rechecked the original rod and its all done except some tractor and engine decals that should be here tomorrow and a new seat. i know ill post all the pics when shes done. :) :) and the problem with the gov. was that i didnt have the spring in the correct holes on the linkage.

[HorseFixer 2,012]

Did you use Stens Parts?

Cheers ~Duke

:beer:

[MalMac 1,331]

Duke I was thinking the same thing. You must have remembered what I told you.

[Docwheelhorse 2,670]

.010 under rods have a small hole drilled right through the rod on the crank throw end.... you probably ended up with a std rod in the kit and installed it on a .010 under crank that equals lotsa banging around and a blowup.... I also have heard that installing a n ew rod on a used and not machined/checked throughly crank is a no-no as the crank can wear oblong slightly and it causes issues with a perfectly round rod.

Tony

[Kelly 1,029]

I was think the same Tony, he has a .010 crank and put a STD. rod on it, did you ever check for sure the crank size?

[rmaynard 15,525]

.010 under rods from Kohler have a hole. After-market rods that I have seen do not. Lots of Taiwanese parts on the market today. It's always best to have both the crank and the rod measured before installing.

[new2horses 287]

Just in the for what its worth department and because I want to add my 2 cents worth. All the rods have a hole in the cap and that hole is for lubrication. A further note of added intrest is that during assembly that hole must be oriented toward the camshaft, always remembering that the connecting rod halves are match marked.

[Rollerman 290]

Just in the for what its worth department and because I want to add my 2 cents worth. All the rods have a hole in the cap and that hole is for lubrication. A further note of added intrest is that during assembly that hole must be oriented toward the camshaft, always remembering that the connecting rod halves are match marked.

The hole being talked about above isn't on the rod cap, but above the crank on the main body of the rod itself.

Maybe not all manufactures (Stens & Kohler do) have a hole in the rod.

This means the rod is intended for a crank that has been turned .010 down to true it up again.

[illinilefttackle 399]

Since everyone is putting their 2 cents in-PERHAPS-just perhaps-not checking the crank journal for roundness and proper specs-THEN ordering rod, and checking it upon arrival, before assembly caused the knock-NOT- the use of STENS parts. It would be nice , in a perfect world, if we all had pockets deep enough for only KOHLER parts. But thats probably not true. Any comments on what Brian Miller thinks of STENS?-Al-Read-"new internal engine--etc.

http://gardentractor...om/a1engine.htm

[Cole 25]

yes the parts are from stens why???

[Cole 25]

got back home today and decided i would play with the horse, after i rode it for about 10 min. it got a really bad tick and knock (2 noises), when i had the engine apart the other day there was metal chips in the oil and i couldnt figure out where it was coming from, all of the parts and the block where inspected and they where in perfect condition and when the engine was put back together all of the clearances where checked again and where in spec. soooo i really dont feel like taking the engine back off but what is wrong heres a vid and you can hear the knock and tick best at the beginning and the end. oh forgot to mention it only knocks when i take my foot off the clutch i thought it was the drive belt hitting the belt guard but no. HELP!!! http://s1092.photobu...nt=MOV04486.mp4

[Docwheelhorse 2,670]

You have both a rod knock and a valve tick..... valve tick is not fatal and is easily fixed. The rod on the other hand has to be addressed or the rod is going to exit stage left. You need to have the crank measured accurately for diameter and out of round... then measure the rod and make sure everything is in spec. Something is out of spec / out of round here and that is causing the knock. I would check sooner rather then later as a knock is definietly a sign your pounding something to death.... as far as the metal in the pan---well if you put in new rings etc.... the engine is breaking itself in..... I have had engines with oil that looked like metalic flake paint after I have broke them in for the first hour or so.

Another thought is that the balance gears could be making all this knocking.....except that if I remember correctly the 10 hp kohlers don't have them???? Maybe I'm mistaken.... its another thing to look into :eusa-think:

[Cole 25]

so i guess i wont run it for the rest of the week and maybe on the weekend ill pull the engine and take the crank and rod to a machine shop and have them check for out of round and stuff like that, how do i fix a valve, when i was assembling the valves i put grease on the valve guides and tappet ''guides''. by the way your right, it doesnt use balance gears. :handgestures-thumbup:

[Docwheelhorse 2,670]

The valve tappets are adjustable to set the gap between the valve stem and lifter.... all the kohlers 10 hp and up have them. You have to take the carb off and take the valve cover /breather assembly off the engine.

Tony

[Rollerman 290]

Cole have you aquired a Kohler manual yet?

[Cole 25]

I read somewhere that the points gap can change the timing and cause the engine to knock, also something about using a timing light, does anyone know about this and is it possible to time the engine with a timing light and where are the timing marks?

[rmaynard 15,525]

You need to go to http://www.kohlereng...als/landing.htm and download a manual before you do anything else. Most of your questions will be answered in that manual.

Yes, changing the timing can make the knock a little less noticeable, but I think you have other problems. If changing the timing reduces the knock, then you probably have an out-of-round crankshaft journal. Changing the timing is just changing the point where the connecting rod is slamming down on the crank. It is not fixing the problem.

There is a link to a site where the "static timing" procedure is described.

For a complete description of this technique with pictures, please refer to the "HOW TO" section on a web site by Matt Gonitzke, http://mgonitzke.net16.net/

Before you do serious damage to the engine, I think you need to have the crankshaft journal and inside diameter of the rod measured by a reputable machine shop.

[Cole 25]

i tried the static timing and no luck the timing mark on the flywheel and the points are right on, its weird because i am using the orig. rod and cranks and the engine never knocked until i rebuilt it, so it can be three things, the two timing marks on the crank, i have the cam on the wrong timing mark (i used the mark towards the cranks where the rod connects), out of round crank which i never touched, or the piston. any guesses i will be taking the engine apart again within the next 2 weeks.

[Docwheelhorse 2,670]

your going to have to tear it apart... I haven't been into the lower end of a Kohler in awhile.... but I seem to remember that the rod cap torque has to be dead on espescially when using a USED rod (torque specs are different for new rod versus used...) which is what you did. You also may have made it worse by installing a new rod on an oblong worn crank and then over-revving it and then putting the old rod back in and on and on.... if I was you I would stop, pull the engine off the pan, remove the piston/rod and get the crank and rod big end measured.... I can appreciate your enthusiasm but you have to step back before something blows up and causes you some heartache and a big pile of cash...

Tony

[rmaynard 15,525]

Let's start here.

You said that you ran great when it first started, so I don't think the timing marks are off.

You also said that you ran the engine at 5500 rpm. Then the knocking started.

Then after checking, you said this "it turned out to be the rod, the rod that came in the rebuild kit was 3x bigger than what it should've been"

So from what I read, you reinstalled the old rod.

Now you still have a knock that wasn't there before.

Do you think that maybe running the engine at 5500 rpm with a 3x over-sized rod may have done some damage?

I do.

As Tony said, you are going to have to tear the engine down, take the crank and the rod to a machine shop and have them checked. Otherwise, I think you are going to end up sending the rod through the side of the block.

Just my 2 cents worth.