18 auto hydro mayday

[can whlvr 993]

the hydro shop that did mine was almost an hour away,my neighbour is a john deere(commercial series)mechanic,he told me of my shop due to him using this guy for years,i got lucky because my neighbor sends him alit of buisness,theres alot of pumps when you take care of hundreds of peices of machinery,and he did mine for cash,but if your paitent and find the right person,it will be like new when rebuilt,there was someone here doing these pumps,sorry cant remember who though,maybe somewill will remember,dont beat your self up about the money pit,nothing you can do but move forward or it will drive you nuts,alot of us here have been on the wrong end of the deal,but theres good deals out there too,thats what makes this hobby interesting,some are cheap,some not

[Ken B 3,164]

We have all found ourselves on the wrong side of a deal or upside down on a tractor at one point or another. I'm upside down on one of my Power King tractors I recently bought but I thouroughly enjoyed putting it all back together. It was basically a Power King in a box with some pretty key parts that were missing and or no good. (the seller forgot to mention a few tid bits of info and played dumb,maybe even lied some) I traveled 3 hrs. to get it and there was no way I was going home empty. Keep the faith, learn all you can and try to have fun. You'll get it goin.

[stevebo-(Moderator) 8,331]

I would say your last resort is to now test the pressure coming off the pump. You can accomplish this by connecting a gauge that measures at least 500-750lbs. You will need to figure out the correct fittings coming off the pump and then back into that line. If the pressure is low now then I would say the pump is bad or weak.

If you find that the pressure is good then you may have a problem with a bad or stuck plunger in the control valve (hanging it up/not opening fully) or your motor may be bad.

[Hodge71 664]

Thanks for the heads up can whlvr. I didnt even think about checking with local tracor dealers to find out who they use to test and repair their pumps. I have a green dealer and an orange dealer relatively close by. I will check today.

Ken B. This is my first experience on being on the bad side of a deal. But I have to agree with you on this. I'm learning so much and I do enjoy working on it. I'm definitely upside down on it. Its never worth what I have into it but I dont think anyone going to be offering to buy it for what I have into it anyhow....lol. I have started to look at it this way, I paid way too much for a broken tractor, I cant control that now, I have learned a tremendous anount about these D series beasts, it will run again once I completely redo the hydraulic system and be stronger than ever, The body is basically straight and not too beat up so with some hammer/dolly work and Valspar paint I can restore it very easily, I will guarantee that with my meticulous care, my son will be using this tractor long after I'm gone. This has become a very, very expensive learning experience on both people and machinery but I will succeed.

Thanks for the info Stevebo. To be perfectly honest Thats a little too far into this than I want to get with having zero experience in this area. Plus to spend another 50+ dollars for a 0-1000 psi gauge plus fittings and all the other items needed to tie it in unless I absolutely have no choice in the matter. I'd sooner pull the pump and motor and give it to someone reputable to look at. I might consider getting further into it if I had a garage. I'm working outside and with daytime highs in the single digits and I'm done freezing for now. Maybe my ideas will change once I get a price from someone on fixing this thing. I might end up doing alot more than I had planned. I guess we shall see. Updates to follow.....

[pfrederi 17,741]

I have used Northeast Hydraulics in Dickson City. (570-489-8014 100 Frieda st.) may be farther than you want to go. Ask around, where does you garbage guy get his packmaster fixed, or ask your township road guys where they get their plow cylinders redone. I feel so out of place going to NE with my little cylinders. The have 6" cylinders that are 10-15' long that they are working on.

[Ken B 3,164]

By the way, I meant to mention that the tractor is looking very nice and you have done a real nice job. I really like the look of the narrow rims and tires on the back. I bet it will get much better traction pushing snow than the wider tires usually seen on the Big D's.

[Pollack Pete 2,273]

I also want to add some more words of encouragement.Your tractor is really looking good.Also,I know its a biggie,but I guess your only real problem is the pump/hydro issue.The other things you've done so far are normal.When I buy a tractor thats going to be a worker,first thing I do is change all oils and filters.Then make new fuel lines and install new fuel filter.Clean and or rebuild fuel pump and carb.New air filter.New spark plugs.Usually need a new battery too.Always have at least one flat tire(musta picked up a nail on my trailer,right??)Hang in there my friend.You'll get her fixed up.

[Hodge71 664]

Paul,

Dickson City is absolutely fine with me. I service all the Applebee's restaurants in our area and have 1 in the mall up there. I will be calling northeast tomorrow to speak with them about this.

Ken and Pete, Thank you both so much for the kind words. It makes this whole struggle a whole lot easier knowing someone other than myself appreciates the progress I'm making. The good news is I guess its almost over...right..only 1 more hurdle. I got to speak to a Brother Mason last night about my predicament and he was kind enough to advise me of my legal options (hes a lawyer and a hobby farmer). He has a red fetish too, but its old Farmalls and International Harvesters. He also gave me the name of NE Hydraulics like Paul did.

I took the gas tank off tonight and I'm going to fill it with hot water and tons of dawn diswashing liquid and tackle the repairs on that while I wait for my hydraulic woes to go away. I cannot wait to have this thing back together and see what she really can do with full power. I'm sure this post will go cold for awhile but as soon as I hear something I'll keep you guys abreast of my progress. I really wish I was close to one of the guys on here that knew about these pumps and motors. I'd really love to tear all this apart with the oversight of an expert. It would be an absolutely awesome experience for me. More updates soon guys!!! Thanks for all your help up to this point!!! you guys truly are awesome :bow-blue:

[can whlvr 993]

hey good luck,see already you have a place to check out for the pump,and look at it this way,how many years do you think you can get out of this machine when your done,if you go 30-40 more years,its not much cash per year,and you have a solid machine that you made this way(by fixing her all up)

[Hodge71 664]

Jeff, unless you pin the rockshaft there is not any down pressure....only up. Same with the 3 pt. Maybe you know this but just in case you don't. Wish I could help you further....

Bob, My rockshaft is pinned so should this lift the front tires at least a little bit off the ground like the C series I have seen?

[Trouty56 567]

Well...I guess it might be able to lift it but that is a lot of weight. I pinned my rockshaft and tried to scrape ice last year with my front blade and mine did not lift the front. I could not steer though. There is a spring on the connection from the a frame to the rockshaft so I don't know if that had something to do with it or not. I really think the tractors are set up to be better at lifting rather than pushing.

All the surfaces must be smooth in the pump and motor for the hydros to run and, as you guess what happens, when the oil gets hot it slips by any damaged areas creating loss of power and even more heat and then the loss of power and heat compounds itself. How damage occurs could be anyone's guess. I do know that in this weather...my temp gauge hardly registers any heat.

I wish you the best. The tractor looks great. Keep plugging away at it. I may need your advice if my pump or motor takes a chit sometime. I hope not but it seems inevitable.

[Hodge71 664]

Heres the next step in the story....I called Northeast Hydro today explained to them the circumstances I have with my unit. They definitely believe that if the unit built enough pressure to blow the o-rings it definitely hurt the hydro pump from the abuse. The motor, they arent sure about until they get it on a test stand and run it. They are also going to check the orginal hydro control valves, as mine were torn out and replaced with a tractor supply log splitter control valve at some point. Pump, motor, and control valve for 3 point/mid are all going to Northeast Hydro next week. They are going to open up the pump first and are going to go through things step by step and see whats up. I have never dealt with anyone that gave me a quote up front to just look at and test it first and then move on from there depending on the findings. They truly are a class act. $65 for the investigation and we shall see how much I have to spend from there to get this straightened out. I also got the gas tank off today and found the major leak is in the bottom seam so looks like it will be sealed from the inside out with some type of coating.

[varosd 1,185]

Jeff,

When you are done, you will have a rock solid piece of equipment! If you had to buy a "new" piece that is as well built as you D..it would be over 10K.

at least this weekend it is in the 50's so you can tackle that fuel tank!

[Hodge71 664]

Hey guys heres an update, Today I got the hydro motor out with some cussin and swearin and weeping and knashing of teeth, The hydro motor was a bit easier as I had done that once before. I crawled under the tractor for the first time since i degreased and pressure washed it only to find something awry with the bottom of the tranny. I wipe some schmeg off and jeez, that metal looks different .... so I roll out and go over the other side to get a better perspective 3/4 of the entire bottom of the tranny is made out of JB freakin Weld!!!!!! Truly unbelivable, I'm so freaking distraught again over this. It now looks like I need to purchase an entire transmission assembly because I personally don"t trust it. If it was damaged that bad, I'm sure it should be replaced. This is the straw that broke the camels back, legal action will be pursued now. I cant allow this to continue to bleed me dry. It must be made right

[wheelhorse656 20]

Sorry to here this Jeff!!! What a @$$ hole I cant belive somone could do this and be okay with themselves after this. I wonder if he will say " That must have happend on the trialer ride home" Because JB weld doesent fix things by it's self and you sure dident do it. man that would really piss me off. Agian Jeff sorry to here this!!! I hope he gots tought a lesson about doing shady deals.

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,347]

In all fairness I have had some tractors come thru here with reselling as my only intention, some Wheel Horses and some other brands. I do not go thru them with a fine toothed comb if they are just getting flipped. If that tractor passed thru my place with the intention of getting flipped I would not have picked up on a past tranny repair unless it was leaving puddles everywhere.

Mike........

[TT-(Moderator) 1,131]

Sorry to here this Jeff!!! What a @$$ hole I cant belive somone could do this and be okay with themselves after this. I wonder if he will say " That must have happend on the trialer ride home" Because JB weld doesent fix things by it's self and you sure dident do it. man that would really piss me off. Agian Jeff sorry to here this!!! I hope he gots tought a lesson about doing shady deals.

Jordan - in case you didn't realize this, Jeff bought this tractor from a RedSquare forum member - a member who offered to take the tractor back and refund the purchase price shortly after it was bought. read it for yourself in the original topic.

I'll include it here too - for prosperity:

I'm really getting tired of this poor me stuff. I have battery chargers and jump packs real easy to start it when it was here. I offered to buy it back and cover anything he's bought back in the beginning. He bought it Sunday I talked to him Monday But thats just no fun, It ran fine in Sept when we blew the hyd line, The tank probobly got stirred up on the three hour trailer trip. I've offered again to drive down and pick it up this Saturday So we'll see what happens. Thats all I can do

Duane Moot

baerpath

Here's Jeff's response to the buy-back offer - once again, captured for prosperity:

Duane,

I appreciate the offer to buy it back. I couldnt sell it back to you for price plus parts. I have too much into it now and I really do like the tractor. I just made some mistakes with our deal by not hearing it run and I should have checked the box of 3 point parts to see there wanst enough in it. The carb is off it now and torn apart for a clean and rebuild plus I got a complete 3 point for and 27 inch industrial tread tires for the back for $400.That would be around $1300. I also have the plow torn apart to install new rods and rebush the holes to stop the wobble it has. This is my valuable lesson learned.

Jeff - unless your "legal actions" consist of suing Toro for buying a company that installed too light of a drivetrain in a heavy tractor, I doubt that you'll get far unless you have a written guarantee/warranty signed by the seller.

Whatever actions you decide to pursue, PLEASE keep those matters off of the forum like you were asked.

Reminder: name calling, slander, and threats will not be tolerated on this forum.

[stevebo-(Moderator) 8,331]

I would like to add the fact that JB Weld or welded/brazed cases seem to be a fix for this TYPICAL fault on the pre 76 D series. I purchased my auto 18 with loader with the blown rear end. I did my research and found a replacement rear end from a very well known tractor shop on ebay that parts out our machines all the time. It was listed as "in good working order". After purchasing it and paying freight to get it to my house I found this rear end was the same as yours-repaired case.

Like TT said in the earlier post these early D's had a poor design with the non hardened bull gear bolts. I would venture to guess 25-50% of them have been repaired. I understand your frustration however I would be more upset with myself if I were you rather than the other member who sold it to you especially after he offered to take it back. That just does not happen outside of the RS community.

I had a deal to sell a KT17 to a member here and helped with hauling for short money with another member. The guy who bought the motor had it for about 2 months and once he figured out it did not fit his application he wanted me to take the motor back and refund him his money. On top he wanted me to give him the money back he paid a 3rd party to haul it for him? That was another situation in which the buyer expected me to know that the motor would not fit his application. After that situation I tell every buyer to do his own research and check out the item BEFORE he/she buys it. I ended up giving him his money back but I have to say I would not have if he was not a member here in our community. He was one of the members who joins for some quick information/was looking for something then I have not heard from him since.

I have dealt with the member who you purchased your tractor from and have to say he is a stand up guy and not in a thousand years would I believe for one minute that he knew of the issues you were going to have. Like Sparky said if he were to purchase a tractor with the intentions of flipping it he would not do a complete inspection/test of the machine nor would I. IMO it is better to know less and let the buyer do his/her own inspections.

That case may be fine as is for a very long time to come...

[Hodge71 664]

TT, All I can say is hindsight is always 20/20. I should ahve sold it back before I found out that it was more than a fuel pump issue. I did contact Duane last week after I was emailed by an admin about the horrible guilt that Duane felt that the tractor had so many issues and he wanted me to contact him to make things right, I did email him, I gave him my phone number and got no response. As far as a guarantee, I did print out the emails in which after I asked the condition of the hydro, the words were "Its got a strong hydro in it, nothing to worry about other than the O-rings and possibly the lines" I just didnt want to get into fiddling with it. This has turned out to be more than o-rings and lines. But as you clearly stated, my fault for not having a completely spelled out contract covering everything. Handshakes mean nothing anymore in this day and age. Again valuable lesson learned.

Steve, I'm going to give using this unit a shot. I thought the case was structurally unsound once I saw all the JB weld. I had no clue 50% were fixed like this and continue to run today. It doesnt leak oil, so maybe it'll be ok once the hydro motor is rebuilt. I am going to secure another tranny though. Just to keep as a spare so that if in the future theres an issue I can swap it all out in one shot.I thought there was one in th clasifieds but I cant rmeber if it was prior to the new year when the "old" clssifieds went away. I would imagine a post '76 unit should bolt right in and be stronger with the hardened bull gear bolts as you installed when you did your complete rebuild.

Hydro motor and pump are going tomorrow for a rebuild....more news at 11

[Hydro 131]

Hey Guys

Let's move everything but the mechanical aspects of this issue off the Forum where it belongs!

However let’s not forget in any Purchase and Sale Agreement certain Representations are always made between the parties otherwise there would be no Purchase or Sale!

A contract does not have to be in writing to demonstrate Obligations and Representations made by one Party to another!

It's unlikely members of the Red Square Panel would be aware of what representations were made in these circumstances and so should not be seen to taking sides nor should they be assuming the role of Jurors or giving legal opinions on the merits of litigation whether personal or corporate!

"Whatever actions you decide to pursue, please keep those matters off of the forum like you were asked" would be an appropriate remark!

I might also suggest a further statement “It is not in the best interests of "This Forum" for personal matters regarding transactions to be posted. (There was a similar issue just a few days ago between two members of this forum where a response was much more sarcastic but nothing was said in that case, at least not publicly!)

I have not seen any evidence of slander. I don't recall any name calling and the only threats I have read relate to commencing a legal proceeding which I believe would be within a purchaser’s rights should they decide to. The seller was never identified by Hodge 71 in any post I read!

Finally, the quotes of both parties mentioned earlier was produced for “POSTERITY†There is no prosperity here except maybe for the person who unloaded this tractor.

Everybody should stay neutral including the Moderators!

Fairness applies to everyone!

[stevebo-(Moderator) 8,331]

Jeff,

The 76 and newer trannies had the brake drum set up vs the pawl style parking brake, it may fit in and be usable(not sure on that applicaiton) however you will not have use of the emergency brake. To clearify, I REBUILT my pre 76 tranny using 3 different rear end parts. I would look for a good used pre 76 rear end that has never had any broken cases. Then I would take my time and open it up, check everything and at min. replace the 4 non hardened bolts with hardened bolts. I used grade 9 even though the upgrade called for grade 8.

Honestly you can pick them up cheap if you look hard enough. I paid next to nothing for one of mine on line but shipping was up there. Good luck!

[TT-(Moderator) 1,131]

Everybody should stay neutral including the Moderators!

Fairness applies to everyone!

Black & white version:

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

I'm in neutral starting right now.

I'm pretty sure my reason for joining this forum was not to be a referee, lawyer, or a sitter. :handgestures-thumbup:

[Hydro 131]

I'm glad to hear that because you are an excellent resource and R/S with all of its members benefits from your knowledge!

I see issues between two parties based upon the rules. I would think you, the panel or Nylyon would have the abilty to edit certain posts or exclude them in their intirety but I do not see any justification to ban anyone.

T

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,294]

I'm glad to hear that because you are an excellent resource and R/S with all of its members benefits from your knowledge!

I see issues between two parties based upon the rules. I would think you, the panel or Nylyon would have the abilty to edit certain posts or exclude them in their intirety but I do not see any justification to ban anyone.

T

Yes, we can edit posts, but we shouldn't need to edit every post that is made and when we do, that is justification to suspend! Honoring the forum rules is expected to be done by the members in every post.

[SAM58 30]

My comments reflex no ill intent to anyone, when you buy used equipment you can expect it to be used...