Hydro vs 8 speed

[Hydro 131]

I have a 314H and a 416-8. I have a 2 stage snow blower. Switching engines is only my time, free.

I do like the Hydro better for snow blowing. The 416 has a Kohler carb. The 314 has a rebuilt Walboro. Under a load the 314 breaks and then recovers. I think it's part of this emission thing. It won't load like I remember Kohlers do. I want more power for the blower than what I presently have. How much power is being lost using the hydro as compared to the 8 speed, switching carbs is an option

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,312]

I think that the general consensus is that 2-3 HP is used for the Hydro. Although I haven't measured it, my 416-H seems to have WAY more power than the 414-8. But that may be a torque thing with a 2 cylinder?

[can whlvr 993]

well i have my 42 single on my 314hydro with 1100 eaton,i had it on my 414-8 last year,the gear tractor had WAY more power but not nearly as good at speed control,with the gear tractor i never had to stop,with the hydro i do,in my opinion i dont why wheelhorse put a 12hp(which is being rebored and new goodies as we speak)on an 1100 eaton,its underpowered even with my 14 on it,at least with the thrower on it,so yes the hydros they do eat horsepower

[Hydro 131]

I was watching a YouTube video last night with a 16Hp 8 speed and could he ever chew through the snow. I my first run is 300 feet full chute before I can take a smaller bite so when we get hit which hasn't happened yet I don't think the 14 will have enough power. I think I would rather switch engines than switch everything over to the other tractor. Hopefully that will be enough.

[MalMac 1,331]

Remember Hydo lift VS. Manual lift. You should know those 2 stages are an absolute boat anchor to lift, add a little snow on them and they are even worst.

[can whlvr 993]

ita catch 22,the hydro is needed for ground speed and lift but the power of the 16hp with manual lift,you need an electric lift for the 416 :wicked:

[kloe0699 12]

Last year was my first year snow blowing with a wheel horse (single stage, Raider 12) It worked pretty well for the most part. The gear shift was slow backing up, blowing in low range, lots of shifting. Picking the blower up was an issue also. This year my C-175 hydro got some mods and the blower is on it waiting for snow. I agree the hydro eats some power but the speed you can change directions in is a huge savings and the tractor is gonna pick the blower up this year. That's a significant benefit in my eyes, even with my single stage..

[Hydro 131]

I have decided the 16 single is coming off, going to a machine shop this week for refreshening and then going on the 314H. The engine upgrade has been in the back of my mind since I bought the 416. Coincidentally the time on both engines is only 15 hours apart but since the 16 is an '88 I will have it freshened. Been reading a lot on the Brian Miller web site. I want the torque of the the 20 Onan if possible but am staying with the Kohler single.

I plowed one day with the 416-8. It was fun but I agree, the Hydro is the way to go for me. I don't intend to race down the driveway but 300 feet is a long way to go full bite when the snow is drifted and packed. Apparently the difference is 2 HP for the Hydro.

Incidentally for anyone interested, the Vredestein front tires make steering the 2 stage a breeze. I have them inflated to 25 psi. Just need a cab now.

[kpinnc 12,501]

Apparently the difference is 2 HP for the Hydro.

I've always been told to figure 4 hp loss on a hydro. Drag from one hydro pump to another varies greatly, so figure on the high side just to be safe.

If the 314 "breaks" under load, you may want to check the governor.

[can whlvr 993]

wow 4 horses,it sure seems like my 312hydro is eating that much,as i said on the gear tractor it hardly slows down,but with the thrower on the hydro it seemed powerless

[Hydro 131]

Thanks for the advice, the engine is now an M16 with a Kohler carb and I am waiting to see how it will perform.

[Docwheelhorse 2,682]

• I seem to remember Bill Pearson saying that the hydros required 5-6 hp.... I don't know if he was refering to the Sundstran or the Eatons or the piston/wobble plate pumps. In my opinion I think 2 hp is a bit on the light side..... all the hydros I have had noticeably dragged the motor down when the belt idler was engaged. On a second note--- I too am getting sick of these Walbro carbs...... the Magnums are great motors but these Walbros can be finicky.
  
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• Tony
  

[Hydro 131]

I think to some degree the drag of the Hydro may depend on the outside temperature and the weight of the oil and of course as it warms up then it would lesson. Whatever for what I do I prefer the Hydro.

[kpinnc 12,501]

I think to some degree the drag of the Hydro may depend on the outside temperature and the weight of the oil and of course as it warms up then it would lesson. Whatever for what I do I prefer the Hydro.

I agree. Unfortunately some hydros are worse than others no matter what. I have a Charger 12 with a strong engine and hydro, but the pump drags so bad that the tractor will bog down with a 42SD deck- to the point of being useless in high grass. Disengage the deck and it's great, but that's it. No powered attachments and all is OK.

No doubt the Sundstrands create more engine load than the Eatons. But, the Sundstrands are at least somewhat repairable- limited only by the parts you can't find. Six one way, half dozen the other.

[can whlvr 993]

as i have stated allready in my opinion the hydros with small engines are a bit of a mistake,my 312 with 14 magnum is nice to drive,but she really feels under powered with the 42 thrower,and we have had only 4 inch of snow to test,yes it was wey but with 10-12 or more i think she would be a really slow go through it,as my c 160 auto can really eat the snow,but a very large snow fall has yet to be tried we havnt had a big fall in 3 years

[Hydro 131]

Interesting Kpinnc. I used to own a 312H with a 42 in recycler deck and I had no problem with the M12 although it definitely worked. Part of the deck rusted out so so we removed all of the baffling and it then became a rear discharge deck. Of course cutting became even easier after that. Never an issue with power for straight grass cutting. It did work though as a mulching deck but still did the job. Just for fun and because in the Toro's specs they said it could, I tried a 48" deck on the 312H. It cut but at a slower speed and the engine was always working. I have seen a few 48's on the 312 H's but personally don't feel they are an ideal combination. Up until yesterday I thought my 312H was a 1990 but it could not have been because it has the cold weather disconnect so it was likely a 91 or 92 but no newer and it would have had the Eaton hydro

I have to think the 44" 2 stage snow blower probably requires the most power of any of the wheel horse attachments and equal to that or closely followed by that the 60" deck

[smoreau 658]

Most of my tractors are hydro and I prefer them over the 8 speeds. That is just what I grew up with and like. The amount of hp lost to a hydro is more of a % then how much hp it takes to turn it. A 5hp brigs can turn and run a sunstrand hydro just fine with normal top speed, just weak when you load it. The more hp you have, the more is lost. I believe in a normal gas engine hp to hydraulic hp is like a 20% loss. that figure would be a little different in different situations.

[Rollerman 290]

I still prefer the hydros for most work.

For awhile I had a 875 with HYD lift, nice little tractor & for 8 horsepower it did great pushing snow.

I sold it to John "brrly" a long time ago & I believe he's mowed with it too.

[Hydro 131]

Well I finally got some snow...not much but enought...about 3" and put the M-16 to work on my newly modified 516C. There is no comparison between the M14 and the M16 when it comes to powering a 2 stage snow blower with a hydrostatic transmission. Now some of what I have just said may in part be due to the difference in carburation between the older Kohler and the newer Walboro but the 16 motors right along at this point without really even loading up. Hope to get a foot of snow and really put it to work.

I added an original style light bar and a class II hitch. The hitch is not quite complete as it was intended to accomodate suitcase weights but I can't find any up here except the JD brand. Maybe not so bad as they would be at the back of the Horse!

The two halogen lights work great but I will need to shorten the bar and then re-postion the lights so they are level. Bent the pipe and made the bracket first however the left side of the bar was too close to the chute and blocked some of the light. Got where I need them now just have to lower and level them.

Just having fun :icecream:

[can whlvr 993]

nice setup :thumbs:

[mattd860 162]

Looks great Gary. You're really putting my old 314 to the test. Good job on the light bar.

[Hydro 131]

Thanks Matt. The light bar will be shortened,leveled then painted. I had to start somewhere in order to get a feel for what would work. It's in keeping with the original style.