Safety switches

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,315]

My 1989 312-8 is a nice unmolested machine. By that I mean its all original and everything works as it should such as the idiot lights and safety switches. Well I went and mounted my PTO driven 4000 watt generator on it to use for back-up power this winter if my 5000 watt portable was to quit on me. Got it all mounted up and hit the PTO and away it went runnin just fine till I got off the seat. With the operator(me) out of the seat and the PTO engaged the motor dies. I had to disconnect the seat safety switch to get it to work but I really hated to do this as its a nice original machine. I have the switch all ready to be put back in in the spring but I was kinda dissapointed to have to do this.

Not really lookin for any advice....just venting.

Mike.......

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,496]

At least you just had to disconnect it - on my 314-8 I had to jumper across it. It was defective and to defeat it I had to jumper across the connector. And the same thing on my brake safety switch. Disconnected it didn't help, so I had to jumper it. It was set if the parking brake was set and the tractor was in gear it would die. And it would just die without setting the parking brake, so I had to defeat that one.

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,274]

The litigious society we live in forces companies to do things like this. No doubt, it is a safety item and I do appreciate safety, but I would think that provisions would be put in place to bypass some of these safety items in in support of stationary attachments like your generator. I wonder if there were any operator-less attachments after the introduction of the seat switch, and if so what did the owners manual say about those?

[kpinnc 12,017]

I gotta put my two cents in here. My wife's Grandfather got a 416-8 a year ago. The seat switch in it is kinda hit and miss. Sometimes it works, sometimes it dosen't.

This summer, he was mowing his back yard with it. He has a few steep hills to mow on, and he mistakenly went the wrong way. He lost his balance, and the tractor began to tip. He tried to jump off of it, and got his pants leg caught on the deck wheel adjustment lever. The tractor righted itself, and kept going across the yard, dragging him by one leg. Luckily, a tree stopped it enough for him to work himself free.

Point being, I know they can be aggrevating, but the seat/PTO setup is a good idea if you ask me. My wife's grandfather made a simple mistake, and could have been killed or at the very least seriously injured. If the switch would have worked properly, none of what happened would have.

I let my daughter drive my WH around, but if I'm more than 10 feet away, I take the deck belt off and engage the PTO. If she falls off or jumps off, it shuts the whole tractor down. I'm glad the feature is there.

Sorry to vent, but I think they are a good thing. We all make mistakes, and at least theres someting there to help out.

Some of the newest "classic" Wheel Horses have a magnet and microswitch to pull the shifter to neutral when it is out of gear, When it is out of gear, the microswitch bypasses the seat switch. I'm not sure if it does it with the PTO engaged, but it might be worth looking into in the situation of running a generator.

Kevin

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,496]

Kevin,

That's a good reason for having some safety switches, the operator presence (seat) switch and the PTO switch. The RIO (for JD owners) and the Mow in Reverse switch for Toro are not necessary, in my opinion.

On most of my tractors I can leave the seat whiles the tractors running if I have the park brake on. But, in Mike's case, that wouldn't work because this only works if the pto is NOT on.

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,274]

I agree with the safety aspect as well, I just think that there should have been some sort of override for the seat switch for accessories such as the generator. In my opinion, having an override would provide for greater levels of safety, since the only override available is to bypass the circuit.

[kpinnc 12,017]

Does anyone know the part number for one of the newer 315-8's? I know they had the bypass on the tranny, but like I said, not sure if it works with the PTO on.

If the seat switch is like mine, the seat has a tab on it that closes the switch in the tractor when the seat springs are depressed. If it's newer, I think the whole switch is in the seat. But, if it's a old one, you can bend the tab down and it will close the switch with no one on it. Just don't forget to correct it later!

Kevin

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,496]

I don't know how similar my 314-8 is to a new 315-8, but it was the predecessor to it. My 314-8 is a high serial number for 1998 (model number 73488).

It doesn't have the Mow in Reverse switch as that came out for 1999. It has a neutral start switch, a seat switch, a parking brake switch and a pto switch. The parking brake switch works like this, the tractor will stay running when you engage the parking brake and the transmission is in neutral. But if you engage the parking brake while the tractor is in gear the engine dies. My was defective - I was mowing with it at church one day and it started to die. I quickly notice that if I place the tractor in neutral it would keep running. So I giggled the parking brake lever and that worked. So I bypass it.

I'm not sure what other safety features the 315-8 will have, other than the Mow in Reverse switch.

[Curmudgeon 28]

Nah, I don't like all those stupid switches. If and when I make a mistake, I'll take responsibility and suffer the consequences rather than relying on someone else, aka the manufacturer of said device, to have thought of everything I might do wrong. I'd rather have the extra $500 in my pocket that they spent on developing and installing them.

Guess in this sue happy country, those days are over.

Dale

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,315]

I will admit that whenever a safety swich started acting up or just plain quit working on my other tractors I just removed it or bypassed it and moved on. I have never removed or bypassed em just to get rid on em tho. The seat switch just needed to be unplugged on the 312-8 to make the PTO spin without my butt in the seat and I will probably (if I can remember) plug it back in in the spring.

Mike..........

[Curmudgeon 28]

I will admit that whenever a safety swich started acting up or just plain quit working on my other tractors I just removed it or bypassed it and moved on. I have never removed or bypassed em just to get rid on em tho. The seat switch just needed to be unplugged on the 312-8 to make the PTO spin without my butt in the seat and I will probably (if I can remember) plug it back in in the spring.

Mike..........

Ditto. I leave them until they cause trouble, or prove to be a nuisance. One of which was, I had a low hanging guy wire to mow under. I could do one of two things, let it decapitate me, or reach ahead and lift it over my head. Course when I reached ahead, there wasn't enough pressure on the seat, and the tractor would quit.

So rather than opt for decapitation, I bypassed the "safety" switch.

Dale, still has his head at least, in Michigan

[mike avad 41]

is there power in them wires for the seat switch and brake switch? sorry am new to this wheel horse.on my 252-H if that brake not down it wont start. how to tell if they go bad?

[953 nut 55,215]

On 1/22/2023 at 7:03 PM, mike avad said:

is there power in them wires for the seat switch and brake switch? sorry am new to this wheel horse.on my 252-H if that brake not down it wont start. how to tell if they go bad?

The seat switch isn't involved with the starter wiring but the PTO and brake switch are.

Download this wiring collection for your tractor.

 

[23 Reo 229]

I've been struggling with my 1994 416 I bought last summer. I checked all the switches and all are good except for the seat switch which I hot wired. The ignition switch, solenoid and starter are fine. Just to be on the "safe" side I hot wired all of the other switches. I will reattach the safety switches after I find the problem.  I am starting to think that the problem is the nine prong connector.  I will change out the connector and hopefully it will turn over.

[953 nut 55,215]

7 hours ago, 23 Reo said:

I am starting to think that the problem is the nine prong connector.

Any connector is likely to suffer from corrosion and should be checked.

[SylvanLakeWH 25,553]

Original issue is a stationary use generator. No safety issue with seat. What about a simple switch at the front of the tractor, wired to jump the seat switch, that operator of generator switches on / off while using generator. Keeps integrity of seat safety switch when tractor is mobile, but provides sensible over-ride for stationary generator use.

 

[cleat 5,935]

I don't have seat switches on my Hydro machines but they have Matt's foot control that centers itself to stop position if your foot comes off the pedal so If you fall off the tractor it will stop moving at least.

 

[kpinnc 12,017]

You could add a bypass and make it work if the seat is flipped up...

[Handy Don 12,217]

7 hours ago, kpinnc said:

You could add a bypass and make it work if the seat is flipped up...

Personally, I am a fan of safety switches, so....

If I were setting up a generator, I’d tap into the wiring of the PTO-linked seat switch with an additional pair of wires and carry them to the front of the tractor leaving them in a female, two conductor Packard connector. I’d physically, but not electrically, attach to the generator, a pigtail wire ending in a male two-conductor Packard with the conductors jumped.

After I’d mounted the generator, I’d mate the connectors so the seat switch will not stop the engine. Remove the generator and the pigtail and the seat switch is properly restored to function.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Handy Don

[mike avad 41]

Thank's all for all info on them switch but for me be new to this am gonna  replace both of mine.