Driveway material suitable for court

[IthacaJeff 151]

Okay gents, here is an odd one that some you may actually have an answer for.

Perhaps other forums may be more suitable for an answer, but I'm not a member!

My driveway/parking area is classic gravel (NY state Item 4 is the top dressing). I'd

like to top it off or mix in something to make a nice smooth surface suitable for a

real basketball court that will, of course, stand up to cars. Asphalt and concrete are

out due to cost, as are pavers and the like. I've heard of folks mixing in clay with

small gravel to make a rock hard and smooth surface. Or, mixing in cement dust

with gravel and stone dust.

Anyone with any advice here?

Thanks,

Jeff in Enfield NY

PS. . . Dropped my dog off at a kennel this evening as we prepare to go away for

the weekend. Off on the edge of the lawn tucked under a tree I spotted a WH,

got to check it out, a 417A. The kennel owner said they got a new Ferris to mow

with, my eyes lit up with the thought of maybe getting a real good deal. Absolutely

no way! They raved about it, lambasted the Cub they had that lasted all of 5 years,

and were just waiting to have a friend fix the deck so they could continue mowing

with it.

[rmaynard 15,916]

I'm not a paving pro, but I can't see where anything other than asphalt or concrete would hold up to weather and vehicles. Cement dust will crumble under load, and anything that is not several inches thick will heave and crack in freezing weather.

[Rollerman 290]

I'm not a "paveing pro" either, I just play one at work.

Not being familiar with the types of aggregate in your state.

Here in northern IN we use a lot of #5 process for shoulder roads, or subgrades.

It contains clay, sand & various sizes of native stone & can harden up like concrete......but.

You'll never get the surface smooth like you would concrete or asphalt.

Another option might be "rota mill" or asphalt millings.

They will bind together & become nearly as tuff as asphalt again....but your still going to fight with surface irregularities that are going to make your basketball have a mind of it's own as your dribbling.

If you do go with a dirt or clay surface make sure to give it good drainage.

Any sitting water will ruin the surface in short order.

[can whlvr 993]

i would think that the best aggregate surface you will get (for playing ball)would be what we call up here screenings,they pack really hard and are small chips so they do level out good,the draw back is that the chippings end up every where,even in the house

[mr.pipes 4]

A friend of mine who works at a recycling and waste management company hauled some asphalt regrinds home and spread them over his dirt/gravel driveway.

Then he just drove over it with his pickup truck. I think he had his girlfriend and her sister sit in the bed because it packed down real nice.

You could probably play basketball on it and the price is right. However, it is not as smooth as hot mix and I really wouldn't want to take a spill on it.

[catman81056 3]

If you live near a concrete plant you might check into the price of washout. Thats the stuff thats washed out of the truck at the end of the day. The plant I work at crush's it and sells it. I have it in my drive and when it hardens after being wet, well its pretty hard. On the flip side, when its wet its pretty slimy.

The best thing it did for me was give me incentive to build a back blade for the "D", to get the ruts out after winter

[IthacaJeff 151]

Thanks guys.

The asphalt tailings/millings I've looked into and have read about. They might be the

best solution. Right now the kids play on the gravel, generally end up playing more

of a rugby/basketball game that does not require much dribbling. Not much fun for

the younger kids as the oldest one has 50-100 lbs on them!

Jeff in Enfield NY

[dennist 139]

Jeff, I live in Maine and we use what is called "crusher dust" and it is great, easy to move and packs like you can't believe and there is no slimy issue. This really is the best stuff we use here. We can get smaller Ton truck loads if you are only talking a couple yards needed. Good-Luck

[shorts 182]

my excavator put asphalt millings in for my driveway, and I just wheel packed it with normal traffic, it makes a great driveway at minimal cost, the down side is that it tends to dent when you park in the same spot all the time and some of the small fines are loose on the top. I think that if I had been better prepaired I would have had a plate compacter on hand and really worked at getting the drive right up by the house and garage packed tighter than just driving on it. the other thing is that you need to lift snow removal equipment off the surface a tad to keep from redistributing asphalt into the yard and resulting in added spring cleanup. it is porous enough that rain can permeate thru it and some grass tries to grow thru the edges, but the are easily controlled with roundup a couple of times a year. Some day I might remove some of it and pour a concrete slab next to the house and garage but that will have untill I win the lottery that I don't buy tickets for

[midnight rambler 36]

Hi, I run an asphalt plant and am familiar with different materials, I think if you want a hard strong smooth surface lime fines( crushed dust) or recycle(ground up asphalt) would be your best bet. Crushed dust gets very hard over a short time, just add a little water to it.

[CDLdrvr 0]

Over 30 years in the industry I have to agree with the other posts. The recycled material is awesome and cheap IF it is available close to you. Many times the trucking would cost more than buying virgin material close by. Second whatever you buy make sure your top course has nothing larger than 3/4 inch. Many contractors I have worked with crush recycled material for road base at 1 1/2 or 2" minus ... the smaller it is the smoother your finish. Last COMPACTION spend a little free cash at the local rental place (United rentals is good) and rent a small vibrating roller (2 1/2 ton) the tighter you pack it the less cars sink and the less rain soaks in creating less mud.

Make sure the fines are concrete dust or stone dust. Sand will not "bind" and clay holds moisture and gets too slimy. I have seen crushed limestone and recycled asphalt/concrete well compacted set up like concrete.

A quick cheap tip ... get a small pile dumped off to the side you can use for "repairs". After you are finished and you get a rain fill in any low spots were water is ponding. The more/faster water runs off the less soaks in. Mud is your enemy.

Good luck

[CDLdrvr 0]

Forgot to mention another idea. Most asphalt batch plants I have hauled from have a waste pile for spillage and bad batches that can not be used. This is pretty good material if there is a plant near you you can probably get it cheap.

[rockbuilt 7]

Many many years ago I built tennis courts, basketball courts, artificial golf greens, and other playing surfaces so I hope I can help

first: all playing surfaces need to have 1% fall or pitch (about 1" per 10 feet) so be sure to get a smooth base which you probably already have

second: use recycled asphalt at least 3" deep it is very cheap and will stand up to vehicles.

Third: you must compact the material! it is best if you compact each level. you will need to rent or borrow a vibrating plate tamper. sorry a pick up with two big women in the back will not do.

finally: get an epoxy based sand filler (you can get this where you get pavers) screed this over the top and compact this will keep the rain from getting in the porous material and softening it

hope this helps

[IthacaJeff 151]

I'm encouraged that this may work! Thanks for the tips, though I've not been able

to find asphalt millings in the area. What I have seen in the local area is crushed

limestone dust, crusher dust (3/16" minus standstone screening), and bedding

dust/crusher fines. The prices vary greatly per ton (or yard). For example, one

local pit has the bedding dust / crusher fines at $3 per ton, while another place has

limestone dust at $19 per ton. Are these not the same?

Any insight to the differences, or what to avoid?

BTW, the driveway is about 6-8" of NY State "Item 4" (1.5" minus screened), also

with a bit of crusher run (1.5" minus) that was mixed in in places to fill voids. This

is on top of standard bank run gravel. The Item 4 stuff is pretty sandy/dirty,

though it is pretty well packed now. There is just too many loose stones from the

crusher run, and too many larger stones sticking up from the Item 4, to make a

viable playing surface.

Anyway, back to the question. . . when looking at these different products, what

should be avoided, what it the "right" stuff.

Thanks again,

Jeff in Enfield NY

[can whlvr 993]

i would go and look at the crusher dust,it may be very close to the screenings,up here screenings are the last step in crushing limestone,19 a tonne seems to be the retail price,id go look at the difference of the two,screenings will work great for basketball,as allready stated it packs super hard,very small peices of rock and easy to work with and when it ruts up you get the horse out and level it up with a grader blade or dozer blade

[Forest Road 594]

We've been using stone chips and dust for a few years now on or lake community roads. It packs well and stays in place. Only downside, some of the women complain it tracks into the house. That's when I remind them that I'm hungry. Possess them off and the dirt is no longer an issue.

[Gerry w 2]

In Vermont on long driveways such as mine we use what is called Ledgepak, it's small shale or bits of ledge stone that's pretty fine. It packs as hard as any drive way, won't crack or split, and stays put. Also it's cheap. It could have folks bring some in the house on their feet if the court is close to the house, but here, with the freezing temps, I'd be resurfacing or re-doing my drive every two years if anything else was used.

we are talking about putting a court in at my school, a couple inches of gravel and then the ledgepak over the top and we are done.

Good luck!

[IthacaJeff 151]

This is a good conversation, gents, thanks. I've been doing more online searching

and have found "decomposed granite," in particular stabilized decomposed granite.

This is somewhat naturally crumbled granite, about 5/8" minus, with types of

stabilizers added. Makes it hard enough to pave driveways, looks awesome.

Problem it, no one I can find in central NY has it. The local large production gravel

pits all have native stone, and other than 1/4" minus limestone dust ($13.50/ton),

and 1/2" minus crusher fines ($8.50/ton) nothing else seems to resemble ledger

gravel or some other products. I think the crusher fines are my best bet, but I

really need to look at them first. I'd like to add a binder or stabilizer to them,

such as cement.

I found websites for soil cement, essentially adding concrete to native soil to

make hardpack. Can't find a good DIYer recipe, however. Also found a bunch of

companies that make soil/gravel stabilizer, used to make roads using cheap

gravel, works like asphalt and may even be better. Can't see it being available

to homeowners, though.

Also came across a website called Klingstone Paths. Put down any sort of gravel

(but not the densely packing kind), and pour this resin-like stuff on it. Locks it

together for life. I'm intrigued for my patio, but not for my driveway.

I'll keep you posted, and Gerry, let us know how the court turns out. Pics?

Jeff in Enfield NY

[can whlvr 993]

up here thats called unshrikable fill,they add portland to fill,usually a sand or crusher run,limestone screenings,etc,call a cement company and see if they will disclose their recipe,i was a stone mason foe alot of my life,still do a few projects a year,anyway we used to make cement in our mortar mixer with screenings,it makes really strong concrete,for concrete i mix 1 88 lb portland with 35 shovels of screenings,about 6 5gallon pails,so i would think you could probally go 4 times the sand,24 pails of sand (screenings to a bag of portland,it would be alot of mixing if you are doing a whole driveway,even in a gas powered mixer,wonder what the no shrink fill would be from the cement companie delivered in a mixer,its dry enough to move with the horse,might noy be too costly,but obviously straight run or screenings will be cheaper,

[IthacaJeff 151]

Just an update. . .

The epoxy kind of soil/gravel stabilizer (look up Klingstone and Gravel-Lok) is

WICKED pricey! It comes out to about $3 a sq ft just for the product, not including

stone and labor and prep.

There are other soil stabilizers that are used to make roads and cost anywhere

from 10-30 cents per sq ft. (yes, cents). These are polymer type products, see

http://www.polypavement.com/

http://www.soilworks.com/

These would be ideal, but so far no company has gotten back to me regarding

homeowner use.

At his point the best option I have is soil cement, of which Don spoke of above.

The local cement company does not deal in soil cement, nor will they sell me

cement only. The best info I can get online is this article from Popular Mechanics:

http://dischercreative.com/paul/projects/a...soil_cement.pdf

I may try this recipe on a landing/patio outside my shed which until yesterday was

200 ft sq of weed infested gravel. Based on the Popular Mechanics article I'd need

about 15 bags of portland cement, which is about $10 per 94 lb bag at Lowes.

I'm already preparing to re-seed a large the area around the landing, and I've

already scraped off most of the gravel in the patio/landing, leaving a combination

clayey/sandy/gravelly soil, which seems like it would be easy to till in some

cement, pack it hard, water, and wait.

But, it may be easier to rake off more of the gravel and re-seed. I dunno yet.

Either way the driveway project will need to wait.

But Don's recipe seems so easy. . . . and could serve as a test for the driveway. . .

Jeff in Enfield NY

[can whlvr 993]

i have a freind at one of our local concrete plants,i will ask him about the unshrinkable fill and the proportions for you,ill see what i can come up with