Transmission From A WH 656

[WH854 44]

I bought this transmission about 4 or 5 years ago to use in my 854, but after installing it keep jumping out of third gear. So i had the orignal one rebuilt on the 854 . in the meantime I got another one with a chunk broken out where the hitch fits, so I switched the third gear out of it, so i will see how things turn out. Here are some pictures of the tear down.

The first two shows it sitting up on end.

The next one with the wide side up.

The next one shows with the wide part off

The next one shows with the axle out.

The next one shows the axle.

The next pictures show it all apart.

That is all the pictures untill I start putting This rascal back together.

Can anybody tell me how far the needle bearings (1528) Go into the axle housing. I'm guesing enough for the oil seal!!! For Any Help!!!

Chas

PS Thank you to Steve :hide:

[sorekiwi 761]

Can anybody tell me how far the needle bearings (1528) Go into the axle housing. I'm guesing enough for the oil seal!!!

Yep, thats right, or maybe a 1/32" more to give a little clearance.

[WH854 44]

Can anybody tell me how far the needle bearings (1528) Go into the axle housing. I'm guesing enough for the oil seal!!!

Yep, thats right, or maybe a 1/32" more to give a little clearance.

Mike

Chas

[stevasaurus 22,863]

Chas...did you see something wrong with the 3rd gear after you tore it down...either the fork gear or the cluster gear??? Popping out of third is a fairly common event, especially under load. Just wondering if you saw something that stuck out. I would also check out the detente balls to see if they are worn at all. That could add to the problem. They should be 1/4".

The reason I ask, is that my 857 was doing that plowing that major snow that I had this last winter. I am going to tear into this one very soon. :WRS:

[WH854 44]

Chas...did you see something wrong with the 3rd gear after you tore it down...either the fork gear or the cluster gear??? Popping out of third is a fairly common event, especially under load. Just wondering if you saw something that stuck out. I would also check out the detente balls to see if they are worn at all. That could add to the problem. They should be 1/4".

The reason I ask, is that my 857 was doing that plowing that major snow that I had this last winter. I am going to tear into this one very soon.

No Steve I checked all the gears, they all look good for being as old as they are,the detent balls were working. I will put new ones in,also new spring, shift pin stop

Chas

[TT-(Moderator) 1,145]

3 (and 4) speeds popping out of high gear when under load is definitely not unusual.

More than likely, the cause is the "inside" teeth on the input shaft side of the 2nd/high sliding gear and the end of the teeth on the input shaft being worn. This occurs when the tranz is shifted (repetitively) between second and third gear without stopping.

When the crisp corners of the teeth wear into "ramps", they actually try to push themselves apart. The detent spring, balls, and grooves are not strong enough to overcome the force of two gears trying to separate from applied torque.

The only cure I know of for this condition is to replace both the input shaft and the 2nd/high sliding gear - or hook a tarp strap on the shifter to hold it in 3rd.

One of the first things you'll notice when comparing gearboxes is the "upgrade" to a one-piece input shaft on the 6 & 8 speeds - which virtually eliminated the popping out of high gear issue. That's not saying that they won't pop out of gear if they're worn - but it's not for the same reason.

The bad part about the full-length input shaft is that you absolutely HAVE to remove the shift forks to be able to completely disassemble the rest of the gearbox.

[WH854 44]

3 (and 4) speeds popping out of high gear when under load is definitely not unusual.

More than likely, the cause is the "inside" teeth on the input shaft side of the 2nd/high sliding gear and the end of the teeth on the input shaft being worn. This occurs when the tranz is shifted (repetitively) between second and third gear without stopping.

When the crisp corners of the teeth wear into "ramps", they actually try to push themselves apart. The detent spring, balls, and grooves are not strong enough to overcome the force of two gears trying to separate from applied torque.

The only cure I know of for this condition is to replace both the input shaft and the 2nd/high sliding gear - or hook a tarp strap on the shifter to hold it in 3rd.

One of the first things you'll notice when comparing gearboxes is the "upgrade" to a one-piece input shaft on the 6 & 8 speeds - which virtually eliminated the popping out of high gear issue. That's not saying that they won't pop out of gear if they're worn - but it's not for the same reason.

The bad part about the full-length input shaft is that you absolutely HAVE to remove the shift forks to be able to completely disassemble the rest of the gearbox.

TT for your input

Chas

[WH854 44]

Another update on this project!! I put one needle bearing (P/N 1528) in just to see if I could do it without screwing things up, went in good to my suprise.

Here are some pictures of the process.

With the bearing sitting on the houseing.

Next one half wan in housing.

Next one is with it all the way in you can see the 15/16 socket I used to finish driving it down inside the houseing. PS I used a good solid piece of flat wood to get it started in,at the beginning.

I saved the other one I am going down to the bearing place(Applied Industries)

To see if they can match it up.

Chas

PS thank you to Steve :WRS:

[stevasaurus 22,863]

:) Thanks TT...nice to know our thinking is in the ball park for a change.

Chas, be sure to document the changes you make and let us know if the situation improves...if you would. Thanks also. :hide:

[WH854 44]

I Have more pictures of the gears Here They are.

Bull Gear

Break Shaft Gear

Reverse Idler

Input Drive, HI&Inter, Shift fork

Cluster Drive and gears

Cluster Again

All of them together

Are these pictures clear enough to tell if they are good gears

Chas :WRS:

[TT-(Moderator) 1,145]

They look good from my house.

The input shaft is definitely in good condition, but I can't really see the "inside" teeth of the second/high gear.

This is what a second/high gear looks like when it's going bad. This one wouldn't pop out under a light load, but it didn't like working under pressure.

I had the "matching" bad input shaft here somewhere, but (naturally) I can't find it now. It was damaged more than the sliding gear - in case you're thinking that it doesn't really look that terrible.

I did find two that are still pretty nice yet:

[stevasaurus 22,863]

That helps a ton Terry in knowing what to look for. I thought Chas's gears looked pretty good also (I've seen worse), but I have never seen a new one to compare it to. :hide:

[WH854 44]

They look good from my house.

The input shaft is definitely in good condition, but I can't really see the "inside" teeth of the second/high gear.

This is what a second/high gear looks like when it's going bad. This one wouldn't pop out under a light load, but it didn't like working under pressure.

I had the "matching" bad input shaft here somewhere, but (naturally) I can't find it now. It was damaged more than the sliding gear - in case you're thinking that it doesn't really look that terrible.

I did find two that are still pretty nice yet:

Maybe these are better

What do you think about the back ground onthe last two

Chas :)

[WH854 44]

Diging around in my goodie box came up with a NOS input shaft gear, put a P/N 1518 bearing in it it's good to go

Chas :WRS:

[WH854 44]

Update on this project. Started putting it back together here are some pictures.

Shift rails back in.

Drive shaft gear.

Second and High.

Low and Reverse.

Idler gears I Think

All but the Axles and bull gear

Thats all for now

Chas :WRS:

[WH854 44]

Another update

As I said in a post above (I was going to Applied industries to check on seal and bearings).

Yesterday I ordered (2) P/N 9416- KOYO B-1816 $8.39 each.(1 1/8" axle)

P/N 1528 (2) KOYO B-1616;L125 $7.42 each.( 1" axle)

P/N 1232 1" Axle & Brake shaft Seals ( (3) C/R 9815) $5.74 each.

P/N 100443 1 1/8" Axle Seals ( C/R 11050) (2) $5.50 each.

Saved a lot of money on the needle bearings!!!!

Saved a little bit on the seals!!! But The Seals have metal outside instead of plastic

Here is a picture of the order

Chas :WRS:

[WH854 44]

I decided to change an axle in this project one side was chiped out on the keyway Here is a picture of them side by side.

So i proceeded to open the tranxaxle up.

Here it is opened up.

Here is a picture of the one I am replacing.

I FORGOT TO TAKE MORE PICTURES

I got to busy with the job I guess anyway it is back together.

Hey Steve the bolts were up

Chas :disgust:

[stevasaurus 22,863]

Chas...the bolts were up. What does that mean anyway. Nice thread Chas...let us know if that new input gear solved the problem, if you would. :hide:

[WH854 44]

Chas...the bolts were up. What does that mean anyway. Nice thread Chas...let us know if that new input gear solved the problem, if you would.

Here is a picture of the four bolts

Picture of new seals I installed on the axle and brake shaft (that little board is my seal installer tool)

New Gasket!!

Gasket glued to big side of case!!

Big side up installed using rubber hammer!!

Next pictures are with the transmission all buckled up!!

I have to get a shift cover and do a little painting.

Steve This is a spare transmission I may not know if the new gears are working or not

Chas

[stevasaurus 22,863]

:hide:

[WH854 44]

I decided I have to get rid of some of these old not useable parts of these transmissions Like this broken case.

Picture of it!!!

The bearing I took them out!!!

Here is a couple of pictures of the P/N 1533 bearing out of the case.

Thiis picture shows the side that is exposed with the axle out

The next one shows the side with a metal seal( I think) on it with Made in USA Nice 7439

I took the cases down to my buddie, and said do you know how I can get those bearings out. he said yeah i can,but they may not be any good when I'm done. I said give it a try. He drug this tool out of the back room and set it up. He said to me you are going to have to do it your self, I have one broken hand.

So i did, it came right out Wala. So i did the other side, The bearings are in good shape. This puller is called a slide puller, it hooks in back of the outside race, you just slide this handle back and forth a couple of times out they pop.

Chas :disgust:

[WH854 44]

Here are some of the gears that I am Scraping out of the junk transmission!!

This is one of the only good ones. The break shaft gear!!

Here is another good one the bull gear!!

BOth axles are in bad shape!!

Input shaft gear is iffy.

Second and high also reverse and low!!

Reverse Idler

This next picture shows the teeth worn on both sides caused from not stopping tractor to shift gears

That is all for now

Chas :)