Curious about 8 speeds...

[Horse-Drawn 1]

Hi There...

I was thinking of hunting down an 8 speed rear end & noticed in the manuals that there are different ones.

What are the desired/preferred ones? ie... 2.6:1 & 4:1 or 1" & 1 1/8" axles

What are the power/torque ratings on them?

Noticeable differences in durability between the 4, 8, or 10 pinion models?

Things to avoid when shopping for one?

If this has been covered in print or in a prior thread, can you direct me towards it?

Thanks & please chime in with any thoughts :thumbs:

[Horse-Drawn 1]

:thumbs: anyone??? :wh:

[sorekiwi 761]

Well, I'll try!

It kinda depends what you want to do with it, cut your grass or build a loader that will pick up 400 lbs in the bucket and bounce across the yard with it. A tractor pushing snow with a blade is obviously going to work the differential harder than a grass cutting machine.

Obviously 1 1/8" axles are stronger than 1".

The 8 pinion diff is regarded as the strongest, probably followed by the 4 pinion, then the 10 pinion and the spider gear type diff I think is regarded as the weakest.

The 10 pinion (Limited Slip) isnt a great piece, at least not these days (40 years on). I still believe the best traction comes from the automotive type spider gear diff.

I wasnt aware of a difference in ratio's between models, I thought they were all the same.

The biggest problem with the 8 speeds is the hi/low shift fork getting bent when someone tries to "shift on the fly". Otherwise they seem to be more or less the same as the 4 speeds in terms of reliabilty and maintenance requirements.

[rmaynard 15,598]

I have quite literally abused my 8 pinion, 8-speed transmission in my B-100 for the last 18 years. Plowing snow, pulling stumps, dragging trees, grinding gears when changing direction, and on and on.

When I took the transmission apart last year to see what was inside, I was quite surprised to see that there was very little metal, no broken or chipped gears or any damage to speak of. I cleaned the gunk out of the bottom, rinsed it clean with kerosene, and put it back together with new seals.

This is a #103907 transmission. In my opinion, the best 8-speed there is. :thumbs:

[Horse-Drawn 1]

Thanks Bob & Mike for the input...

I assumed as much about axle diameter.

Good info about the pinions. I'll have to research if there's a connection between models and pinion count.

As far as ratios, I was reading the B,C,D owners manual & stumbled on the fact that there are two models of the "8-speed" (I didn't think there was a difference either)

The 4:1 is a true 8-speed.

The 2.6:1 is actually a 7-speed. Reverse on that model is the same in high or low.

...or so says the manual, lol.

I'm not overly concerned with breaking one. My B-80 has pulled stumps, been abused by kids grinding gears... I even went through a phase when I was ten where I'd roll it down the drive and pop the clutch in reverse, lol. Still no metal in the oil & no slop or noises. Can't complain

the research continues...

[rmaynard 15,598]

The clue is "I was reading the B,C,D owners manual" The B,C,D manual came out in 1978.

In 1978 the models B-81 and B-111 had Peerless transmissions. In 1979 Wheel Horse was putting a Foote transmission in some models. So that is your answer as to why the different ratios.

The Wheel Horse uni-drive was by far a much better transmission.

[can whlvr 993]

i have a few different models,a 308 with 1 inch axles,its been very good to me,i bought it new in 1986 and have abused it like bob said,i also have a couple of the heavier units,they too have been worked(i havnt had them nearly as long,but they are as old or older)and they are great too,so i would not hesitate to purchase another 8 speed with a 1 inch and 4 pinion,or a 1 1/8 either

[Horse-Drawn 1]

HAH!!!

Thank you for finding the weakness in my studies

I think I could've read that a couple more times before that clicked in my head, lol.

I'm not a big vertical shaft guy, so I never even thought about option. I just assumed uni-drive.

So, now I am wiser.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,145]

The 110995 and the 92-8708 Uni-Drives are the last two versions of the 8 pinion / 8 speeds produced.

They are the most refined version of a design that was already good from the beginning.

Rumor has it that in their stock form they are capable of holding up behind a 50hp engine.

There is very little - if any - differences between the "front halves" of the 8 speeds.

Although the 1 1/8" axle / 8 pinion combination is the strongest, the 4 pinion / 1" axle version should never be classified as weak.

[dmoore 883]

Where would I find the part # on my 1978 C-101 8-speed transmission? Also does the plug on the bottom left (viewed from rear)drain all the gear oil? I would like to change it out because I don't think it has ever been done! Thanks! Dave

[Duff 206]

Where would I find the part # on my 1978 C-101 8-speed transmission? Also does the plug on the bottom left (viewed from rear)drain all the gear oil? I would like to change it out because I don't think it has ever been done! Thanks! Dave

Hi, Dave,

Don't know where the part number is on the 8-speed trannies if there even is one, but I would be very interested to find out myself.

As to the plug on the back of the tranny, no, it won't drain out all the oil unless you literally stand the tractor on end. The drain plug to completely purge the unit is the one on the bottom of the case and takes an allen wrench to spin it out.

Duff :thumbs:

[tunahead72 2,432]

Where would I find the part # on my 1978 C-101 8-speed transmission?

According to the trans. repair manual that's available here somewhere (I don't have the link right in front of me), the trans. assembly for your '78 C-101 (and in fact for all '78 & '79 C-series tractors) is #103916. That number agrees with the number I found in a parts manual I have for the '79 C-series tractors, so it's probably correct (assuming you still have the original trans. on your machine).

I think Duff is right, I don't believe you'll actually find a part number on the trans. case itself.

Did we just hijack this thread? Sorry. :thumbs:

[Horse-Drawn 1]

no complaints from me.... it's all good info!

I know engines, but the trans is a new animal to me. I'm just soaking it all up :thumbs:

[dmoore 883]

Thanks Duff! Seems I tried to break that allen plug loose 15 years ago with know luck....may have to stand her on end...yeah right!! Maybe I'll pump out what I can thru the dipstick hole.....in any case its gotta come out! :thumbs:

[can whlvr 993]

that allen plug on the bottom of the case can usually be removed if you tap the allen key in with a hammer(not so hard as to break anything) and then give the allen key a tap with the hammer,should break free hopfully

[dmoore 883]

That's what I was thinking...a lil shock to the threads and out it should come....I'll try it tomorrow evening... :thumbs:

[qd-16 14]

Which models have the spider gear type diff. ? :thumbs:

[rmaynard 15,598]

That's what I was thinking...a lil shock to the threads and out it should come....I'll try it tomorrow evening...

Be sure to clean all the dirt out of the hole, and make sure that you have a good 1/4" allen wrench that goes all the way to the bottom of the hole.

[sorekiwi 761]

Which models have the spider gear type diff. ?

Off the top of my head: 953, 1054, plus most of the '66 and 67 hydro's and 4 speeds.

[SAM58 30]

My brother used a Raider 12 w/ a # 5073 8-speed from 1972 - 2010 before it let go.

Plowed 5 acres of garden for about 20 years, and cut grass for the last 15 - 18 years or so. changed the gear lube about every ten years.

It finally let go about a year ago. replaced it with one from Bob Maynard, i think it was from a 1977 model. By the way it is still running... Tough gear boxes...

There is a .PDF doc out there that lists all the models & the type of transmission it should have came out with.

Yours should be a Wheelhorse #103916 trans. in a C-101 10 HP Kohler, I think your trans. has the 1" axles. 12 HP and above has the 1-1/8" axles.

:wh:

[can whlvr 993]

i have a 1978 c101 and it has 11/8 axles,i didnt think the c series of that era had 1 inch axles,but i have been wrong before,my c 101 is original so it came that way

[Flat Thunder Channel 178]

Anyone have factory specified ratings for these rear differentials?  Interested in maximum hp and torque input ratings.

[71_Bronco 1,072]

Another thing to consider sider is the brake drum location. On the 5060 (1-1/8" axles, 10 pinion LSD model), the brake drum is on the same shaft as the older 3-speed models, so a swap is very easy.

 

On the later 8 speeds, they are on a different shaft, which requires modifications to the brake linkages.