Possible 310-8 Transmission Work

[tunahead72 2,432]

I have a 310-8 (model 21-10K802) that I bought new.  As part of getting it ready for this year's mowing duties, I decided to tighten the gear shift lever since it seemed loose.  I was able to loosen the locknut easily, but the adjustment screw turned with it, and I couldn't get the two to move independently.  So I removed the screw/locknut assembly completely to try to free it up, and removed the gear shift lever from the opening in the transmission case.

 

After I had freed the screw/locknut, I put the lever back in its home, but I couldn't get the adjustment screw to line up with the hole in the collar that goes around the lever, and realized that I had inserted the lever too far into the opening.  I struggled to finally get the lever out of the opening, but it came out.  Then I noticed that the roll pin that holds the collar and lever together was broken, at both ends I think, sharp jagged ends and all.  And then came the realization that it was quite possible that pieces of that roll pin were now inside my transmission!

 

I looked around inside the opening with a flashlight to see if I could see anything obviously out of place – no such luck.  I then poked around inside with a magnet, again no luck.  The transmission was in neutral, so I repeated these exercises while SLOWLY rolling the tractor back and forth – still nothing, but at least there were no unusual noises.  I also drained the transmission fluid and strained it through a rag, hoping that any foreign pieces of metal would flow out with the old oil – still nothing.

 

Here's where I could use some advice.  It's at least possible that pieces of that roll pin are inside my transmission.  How much damage could they do if I just refilled the fluid, put the lever back in and adjusted it properly, and tried to drive it in each gear, listening carefully for ANYTHING unusual?  And is it possible to simulate that driving/shifting activity in my shed, safely, without the engine running?

 

Or should I just bite the bullet and remove the transmission from the tractor, split the case and take a look inside?  I'm not real fond of that solution, primarily because of my limited skills and complete lack of experience in transmission work.

 

On the other hand, I need to have this machine running well soon (it's my main mower).  I've done almost all of the routine maintenance and repairs on this machine myself since Day 1, including tune-ups, oil changes, belts, pulleys, whatever.  And I've been searching your forum heavily for the last couple of days, and have found a HUGE amount of valuable information on transmission work on these tractors.  So, I could probably pull it off.

 

Based on some of the advice I've read here, if I were to tackle the job myself, I would probably replace all 4 seals.  I am seeing some wetness around all of them, but it seems minor – no puddles on the floor, and I rarely have to top up the fluid level.

 

I wouldn't plan to replace any of the bearings unless there's a particular reason to do so.  I've checked for play in the rear axles – there's maybe 1/16" to 1/8" end play on both sides, which apparently is acceptable, and I didn't detect any up/down or rotational play on either side.

 

I'm also hoping none of the gears or anything else needs to be replaced.  The only thing I've ever used this tractor for is mowing, and very occasionally pulling a small cart.  And the transmission has always worked well for me, very smooth, no unusual noises or behavior.

 

I hope some of you guys will share your suggestions with me.  Feel free to ask questions, I should be able to answer just aboutanything you can throw at me.  And if I decide to open up the transmission, I'll certainly have some of my own.

 

Thanks much!

[daveoman1966 3,762]

Inasmuch as there are no high RPM gears in the trans and that the pin fragments would likely drop straight down to the bottom, you are probably safe in using the trans as is. It is also a possibility that the pin and fragments broke off long ago and you are just now discovering that fact. The fragments will, of course, sink to the bottom of the trans case and most likely stay there due to the 140 weight gear lube in the trans. As long as you aren't in the competitive pulling tractor mode, it ought to be ok to leave it alone. This is, of course, just one man's opinion.

Don't forget, too, that this is NOT a synchromesh trans like a car....you can't shift on-the-move at all without internal gear damage. You should STOP between gears.

BTW... consider yourself fortunate that you didn't drop that magnet in the gears.... then you would be doing a tear-down.

[dgjks6 6]

lets see some pics.

The roll pin does not go all the way through. So one end should be flush and the other end far enough in to accomodate the dog screw.

If you think it may be in there, you drain and strain and hope.

[can whlvr 993]

i would tip the tractor on its side to get the pieces to the side(if there is any in there) and maybe you could get the magnet in along the side to the bottem,or you could flush with diesel and tip the machine up in the front to get the metal to roll towards the drain,just a few things u could try before splitting

[tunahead72 2,432]

Interesting replies so far, thanks everybody!

I have a busy day today, so I'll just add a few quick responses of my own for now and come back later....

Pardon the lack of quotes, I'm still a newbie at this and haven't been able to get them to work properly yet. Can anybody point me in the right direction for instructions? Thanks.

daveoman1966 --

I hope you're right about the pin fragments dropping down to the bottom of the case and staying there, would make my life a whole lot easier. And no, I'm certainly not doing anything more competitive than trying to get my lawn mowed in a reasonable amount of time, no racing.

I've never shifted this machine on the fly, always stopped completely before selecting a gear, always will.

And finally, I hear you about possibly losing the magnet inside, I'm being really careful, thanks.

dgjks6 --

I'll take some photos later today, I know how useful they can be. I haven't seen instructions/guidelines here for including photos in posts, any particular rules I should follow?

I see what you mean about the length of the pin. The parts & service manual that I bought shortly after I bought the tractor doesn't have an exploded view of the collar/pin assembly. But I do also have a parts manual for an older C-101 tractor that shows the pin as a 5/32" x 7/8" spirol pin, which looks about right. I've only been able to find 3/4" and 1" lengths in that diameter at my local hardware stores, and they're all "roll" pins, not "spirol". Is one of those probably acceptable, or should I try to find the proper Toro part?

can whlvr --

Both good ideas, I'll give them a try and get back to everybody later.

Thanks again!

[dgjks6 6]

search for photobucket and there will be posts on how to add pics.

I used a 3/4 roll pin and no problems so far

[tunahead72 2,432]

search for photobucket and there will be posts on how to add pics.

Thanks, I've seen some of the Photobucket and Flickr links here, I'll take a look at those later tonight.

I thought I also saw that it was possible to link directly to photos already on my own computer using the "File Attachments" section, without using any other web service, but I haven't been able to make that work for me -- was I just imagining things again?

I used a 3/4 roll pin and no problems so far

I went ahead and reinstalled my lever assembly today, using a 3/4" pin, and it seems to be working just fine as well.

--------

Just an update on this whole project....

I spent most of the afternoon today becoming more at one with my transmission.

I borrowed a thinner, more flexible magnet, and was able to reach in deeper and attract a small amount of metal shavings -- nothing large, and I'm sure there's more shavings in there, but I'm not too concerned just yet. I wonder, would it make sense to replace the original drain plug with a magnetic one, just to pick up some of this small stuff?

After I reinstalled and adjusted my gear shift lever, I filled the case with about 1-1/2 quarts of kerosene (because I had some readily available, it's just for testing). I then jacked up the rear end and slowly rotated the wheels by hand with the trans. engaged in each gear (both low & high range).

I'm happy to report that I didn't hear or feel anything that I could call unusual, no obvious grinding noises or anything like that. So I'm tempted at this point to put the rest of my machine together (including fresh gear oil) and take it into the yard for more of a real-world test.

I did have a bit of trouble once or twice putting the trans into 3rd gear, and it occurred to me that I may have occasionally had problems with this in the past, just can't remember for sure. I do most of my mowing in 3rd low, so I'll have to keep an eye on this ... and make sure my brake is adjusted properly!

I also checked the input/drive pulley and the brake shaft pulley for end play -- looks to be about 1/16" or so, does this sound acceptable? I couldn't detect any up/down play.

--------

A couple of sort-of related questions:

I noticed a bit of up/down movement in the high/low shift lever, maybe 1/8" or so. The roll pin seems intact, and the lever and pin are even still protected by bright shiny original red paint! Is it possible the hole in the shaft has enlarged this much over the years? Should I be concerned?

Also, the brake drum has a bit of light rust on parts of the outer surface (the area squeezed by the brake band) -- probably not a big deal, but can this area be cleaned safely with brake cleaner, or even rubbing alcohol?

--------

Thanks for your help, everybody -- this is a great site!

[tunahead72 2,432]

Rain all day today, couldn't work on my WH, so I decided to learn how to use Photobucket to post pictures here.

So, here's a shot of the collar and roll pin that hold the gear shift lever assembly together. You can't really tell, but the pin is only about 1/2" long at this point; the rest of it may (or may not) be inside my trans.

Here's a closer view of the pin, with a pretty good look at one of the ragged ends; the other end isn't much better.

And finally, here's a close-up of the "business end" of the lever. The hole's a bit elongated (can't see that here), but otherwise nothing unusual that I can see.

Later!

[Duff 206]

Looks like you got Photobucket picture posting down to a science!

Duff :wh:

[tunahead72 2,432]

Looks like you got Photobucket picture posting down to a science!

Yeah, I'm gettin' there, it amazes me just how much time I can waste if I put my mind to it! :thumbs:

[Duff 206]

Ed, gotta ask about your screen name. Are you a Hot Tuna fan?

~Duff :thumbs:

[tunahead72 2,432]

Ed, gotta ask about your screen name. Are you a Hot Tuna fan?

That was quick!

Short answer: Yes, since forever, and the Airplane before that, recognize the avatar?

[Duff 206]

I know both Jorma Kaukonen and Jack Casady pretty well. I've worked with them stage managing some of their shows over the years and it's kind of a comic mini-reunion when we all land on the same stage together. Two really great guys! Jack has a really dry sense of humor off stage. I'm a bass player so I tend to follow Jack's whereabouts more than Jorma's but I like them both.

Duff

EDIT: Oh yeah, I recognize the Avatar, thus the question!

[tunahead72 2,432]

Okay, I know you guys have all been staying up late at night waiting for an update on my transmission issues, so here it is....

I've concluded that my shift lever worries were ... well, nothing. I fully expected to have to tear the trans. apart, but instead I simply adjusted the lever properly, drained the kerosene and added fresh gear oil. I've mowed with the tractor for about 3 hours total, and everything seems fine -- smooth, quiet, just the way I like it.

I just finished reading through this whole thread, and it's unbelievable to me how much I've learned in just the last 3 weeks or so. I started out just doing a routine service on my machine, just like I always do this time of year, and ended up understanding my trans. better, tightening my steering nicely, getting rid of most of the slop in my hood hinges and mower deck height adjustment, fixing a couple of wiring problems, lots of little things that have made a world of difference in the way she drives and mows. I was actually smiling while I was mowing the yard this afternoon (my daughter thinks I've lost it)!

There's still minor issues, to be sure, things I'll tweak over the summer, but for now it's all good.

Thanks to everybody who gave me advice on this transmission thing, and to everybody who ever posted on any of the 1001 other topics I've read here in the last month or so.

I'll be around, see ya!