Wanted:Pictures of 520 with honda installed

[Don1977 604]

I though about putting a Honda on my C-120 but with the gas tank where it is their's just not enough room. I was already set up for a Briggs & Stratton Vanguard with the !6 HP I installed in 1990. I installed a new 18 HP Vanguard in last spring.

[SALTYWRIGHT 859]

I HAVE A 10 HORSE POWER DIESEL THAT I PUT IN MY 417-8 AND IT HAS MORE POWER THAN A 20 H/P GAS ENGINE. IT WAS $520.00 NEW AT MY HOUSE. I USE LESS THAH 1/2 THE FUEL. I AM IN CT. (NORWALK) SO IF YOU WANT TO SEE AND HEAR IT LET ME KNOW. IT STARTS NO MATTER HOW COLD IT IS. THE R.P. M. IS 3600. BUT YOU NEVER HAVE TO REV. IT. YOU CAN ALSO PUT A PTO ON IT. I HAVE 4 OTHER WHEEL HORSES TOO.

RUSS

[can whlvr 993]

hey saltywright,what brand was the deisel,i saw a chinese one for 500.00 canadian,im considering a deisel for my c120auto,does it wire into the horse or is it totally separate like the honda in the pic above

[LAWRENCE JEWETT 4]

Since this is an old thread, you are probably not looking for pictures anymore, but here is a picture of my 520h with Honda installed. You need to be very careful of the Honda installation in the Wheelhorse because they are not made for the horizontal clutch loads. I siezed my first engine and Small Engine Warehouse rebuilt it and added a thrust washer on the fan side. The Hondas do not have bearings on each side of the crank, only the output side has a bearing. The fan side only has a bushing. The engine now works great. I love it. It has more power than the Onan. Blows snow great in Winter.

[312Hydro 474]

That looks like a very neat installation. Is the thrust washer to take out any play for the side loading then?

[546cowboy 301]

I can understand your dilemma. I have had 5-520's and still have two and I have bought two 20 hp. Onans with valve seats out. The thing you have to have is a machine shop that you can trust to do the job of replacing the seat correctly. You don't have to take the whole engine apart to have the job done but you do have to remove it.. Now the ones I have had done were lower hour engines (all well under a 1000 hrs. according to the PO's) but I did have one of those that chucked the seat again a year later and had to have the block welded and seat opening re-sized for a new seat.. That was much cheaper than a complete overhaul, say $300 total plus my time and aggravation.

I had thought about a replacement but with the price of a comparable replacement it was more than I could afford. Hey I have about $2000 in the truck I drive why should I have a $2500 to $3000 in a mower? Just my opinion.

[LAWRENCE JEWETT 4]

That looks like a very neat installation. Is the thrust washer to take out any play for the side loading then?

I believe that is the job of the thrust washer. And to help with lubrication. The bushing area is what siezed in the first engine. The bushing siezed to the engine casing. When I installed the new engine, I checked the horizontal movement with the clutch engaged. When the clutch is engaged, I could see slight horizontal motion on the pulley which is part of the crankshaft. I tried to keep the clutch as light as possible when I installed the snowblower last Fall, just to minimize any horizontal motion.

[LAWRENCE JEWETT 4]

When I lost the valve seat in my Onan, I didn't know that you could fix one for $300. I called the local Cummins repair shop and they told me it would cost about $1200 to fix. The new Honda engine cost me about $1300. I still have the Onan and may fix it in the future. Not sure if I would ever want to put it back in the WH or not. I like the way this Honda runs. I could keep it for a back up if the Honda fails again, but I think it's okay now and should not have the siezing problem again.

I can understand your dilemma. I have had 5-520's and still have two and I have bought two 20 hp. Onans with valve seats out. The thing you have to have is a machine shop that you can trust to do the job of replacing the seat correctly. You don't have to take the whole engine apart to have the job done but you do have to remove it.. Now the ones I have had done were lower hour engines (all well under a 1000 hrs. according to the PO's) but I did have one of those that chucked the seat again a year later and had to have the block welded and seat opening re-sized for a new seat.. That was much cheaper than a complete overhaul, say $300 total plus my time and aggravation.

I had thought about a replacement but with the price of a comparable replacement it was more than I could afford. Hey I have about $2000 in the truck I drive why should I have a $2500 to $3000 in a mower? Just my opinion.

[Chevydave 25]

I need to spend the time to learn to post pics.

I have a 89' 416-8 with the same GX-670 Honda, it's been in for about 2 years.

Great fit, engine runs beautiful.

I had a problem with the engine when it first went in and had ALOT of trouble getting Honda to warrany it.

It is a very good motor, I run nothing but full synthetic and keep everything clean, blow out engine sheet metal after every mow.

I do recommend having an authorized Honda guy install it just for warrany issues.

[MarkPalmer 81]

That is interesting to know of side thrust problems encountered with the Honda GX engines using the Wheel Horse PTO's. I have installed several Honda GX twins in Cub Cadets to replace KT17 Kohlers and one to replace an Onan P20 in a 982 and have not encountered any trouble with their electric PTO/shaft drive setup. Some of them including my own tractor have been in service since 2006 and they have not encountered any problems at all, they are great running powerful engines. The Vanguard engine is made by Diahatsu (Toyota) and is excellent also as a repower.

-Mark-

[LAWRENCE JEWETT 4]

I need to spend the time to learn to post pics.

Honda would not fix mine. They said that it was not made for the WH application with horizontal loads. SmallEngineWarehouse stood behind it and fixed it free of charge including the shipping both ways. Supposedly, you need bearings on each end of the crank if you apply side loads.

I have a 89' 416-8 with the same GX-670 Honda, it's been in for about 2 years.

Great fit, engine runs beautiful.

I had a problem with the engine when it first went in and had ALOT of trouble getting Honda to warrany it.

It is a very good motor, I run nothing but full synthetic and keep everything clean, blow out engine sheet metal after every mow.

I do recommend having an authorized Honda guy install it just for warrany issues.

[Chevydave 25]

That is interesting!

I had a Kohler guy install the first Honda engine and when it went that was the first question he asked.

The Small Engine Warehouse and Honda said it had to be an oil problem or improper break-in.

I sent it to a Honda guy who also agreed it had to be us.

They finall decided to replace the engine, after about 2 months of bickering,I wonder if they put the bearing in prior to the re-installation.

Since then it has been great, probably have 40 or 50 hours with no problems.

It does seem to need a very strong battery to get it started.

I can hit the key and click the solenoid several times before the engine turns over.

Once it turns over it starts right up.

Anybody else have that problem.

[MarkPalmer 81]

It does seem to need a very strong battery to get it started.

I can hit the key and click the solenoid several times before the engine turns over.

Once it turns over it starts right up.

Anybody else have that problem.

I haven't experienced this at all. To me, the Honda engines sound like they are cranking too easily as if without any compression, like the spark plugs are removed. They always fire up quickly though. The GX twins are rated for a 2000 hour lifespan. I imagine they will be expensive to rebuild when the time comes but as most of them are repower, the rest of the tractor will probably be dragging on the ground at that point anyway.

-Mark-

[bean 85]

I'll throw in my $.02

I have worked with small motor driven equipment for 30yrs. I can tell you that we went to honda engines after years of trouble with briggs and tecumseh engines. the motors were put through torture. 120* on a roof, running wide open for 8- 12 hrs a day, covered with insulation and tar. it got to the point that we would scrap the briggs/tech motors every year. the honda engines would start on -5* days, rainy days, etc and last several years.

the only other engines that would keep up with them were the briggs vangaurd engines. I think there are several vanguard replacement twins for various applications, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy one.

the worst engines were the wisconsins we used in our hoists. once started, they would go on forever, but if it was damp, rainy, full moon, whatever, they would give you the blues

[tarcoleo 119]

My two "C"s with 11 hp Honda and 13 hp Chinese knockoff w/48" decks. Never bothered

to use the starter, they start first pull every time. Sorry, not original, but they do the work.

Tom in Little Compton

[maxed500 10]

the golf course i work at purchased a Toro 3100 Greensmower in 1999. 16 hp briggs vanguard with 4,982 hrs was replaced in 2011. Engine wasn't smoking, but budget had money available. ran 4 hours a day every day that temps were over 55. engine oil was 15w 40 non-synth. and changed every 150-200 hrs. Is synthetic oil changed every 25 hours really necessary or is it more important to maintain oil level in safe-full level? also fuel was cheapest available, since its a municipal course.

[MarkPalmer 81]

the golf course i work at purchased a Toro 3100 Greensmower in 1999. 16 hp briggs vanguard with 4,982 hrs was replaced in 2011. Engine wasn't smoking, but budget had money available. ran 4 hours a day every day that temps were over 55. engine oil was 15w 40 non-synth. and changed every 150-200 hrs. Is synthetic oil changed every 25 hours really necessary or is it more important to maintain oil level in safe-full level? also fuel was cheapest available, since its a municipal course.

If the engine got nearly 5000 hours, I would say they are doing things right. Most 15W40 conventional is truck diesel oil, which still contains ZDDT, the "active ingredient" used in STP oil treatment that keeps the oil sustained on the engine parts which greatly increases engine life. It was removed from conventional automotive motor oil years ago (one of those stupid deals where it causes cancer in 1 in 10 million baby California lab squirrels or ??). Maintaining proper oil level is definitely the top life saver in small engines. Engines like the Kohler K line singles need more frequent oil changes as they have a non-pressurized slinger oil system and no filter. I would not recommend using synthetic in older slinger oiled engines as they are not tightly toleranced and synthetic will tend to leak. They really need the oil changed every 25 hours. Newer full pressure lubed engines with filters can go longer, I change the oil/filter in my Honda GX610 every season which is about 80-100 hours for me, it could go longer as it always drains clean.

-Mark-