74 C-120/Raider update

[Anglo Traction 761]

Well I'm looking forward to an opportunity to start on the Framework outdoors now the weather is warming up a little.

The first point is that I'm calling/labelling this a C-120 and not a Raider.

The Engine is sorted now I have replaced all the missing/wrong screws/bolts , bit of work to do on the Flywheel and Shroud. I have a New Starter for it.

The Transmission is back together and the new expensive Hubs are done ready for me to make some New Woodruff Keys. The Hubs are very good condition and correct for this Model. I will convert to H.T Bolts and Acorn Closed Wheel Nuts-

I've been gathering parts together ready to hit it hard at the end of the month, so I can at least reach the Rolling Chassis point in February.

Wheel prep is priority, Grit Blasting and Powder Coating (not me), then I can put the 'Fat Ags' on them.

I will have some welding to do on the Sheet Metal, but nothing serious or major . I'm not a Welder, but I know a man who is and he's ok for training me up on the Practical.

This will come in Handy , as I've got a Lump of Railway Track which I plan to use as a Front Weight type Bumper !.

I'll add to this post 'As and When' I progress. As this is not a Restoration, I shall include all the changes I make to it.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Anglo Traction

[rmaynard 15,514]

Very nice job so far. Keep up the good work, and keep us posted with pictures.

:banghead:

[meadowfield 2,570]

wow, way shinier than mine.

make those woodruff keys with grooved tops to stop those hubs sliding!!!

mark

[Anglo Traction 761]

Thanks Bob, yes will do.

make those woodruff keys with grooved tops to stop those hubs sliding!!!

mark

Will do Mark, ....I'll machine them up to very close fit and run a Countersink Slot Drill in the top just to make a shallow 'Land' for the Set Screw. The Screw ends are like new and still have the serrations on.

Thought I'd also put a link here to my post of images when I first got it home for comparison.

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/index.php?showtopic=21714

[meadowfield 2,570]

make those woodruff keys with grooved tops to stop those hubs sliding!!!

mark

Will do Mark, ....I'll machine them up to very close fit and run a Countersink Slot Drill in the top just to make a shallow 'Land' for the Set Screw. The Screw ends are like new and still have the serrations on.

Despite our best effort on my brother Raider one of the hubs moved inwards by 1/2" yesterday just moving around the yard.

Seems theres only two types of hub fixing, seized and loose!!!

I had the same trouble with mine.

mark

[Horse'n Around 22]

Thats looking great Richard. You do really nice work

John

[Anglo Traction 761]

Yes Mark, they can be iffy. I'm always watching and listening out for things that may need attention before they go critical on these, just incase I missed something during the rebuild, but so far Raider12 is runniing as Tight as a Drum smooth and sweet, except just a slight bit of 'New Belt' rub somewhere. I think it runs close to the inside of the Guard, and where they 'Hot Stamped' the Part nbr on the Belt joint, it's slightly proud and just hits once every revolution. I should locate the wear point fairly easily.

Thats looking great Richard. You do really nice work

Thanks John, I may be my own worst enemy. I'm a stipler for detail and accuracy. I may end up making more work for myself, but I'm rewarded with a sense of achievement, especially when I tackle something I'm not familiar with.

I also enjoy mechanical/practical challenges, I have the time and these Tractors are just the right manageable size to work with. You can't put a price on it though.

Hope all goes well with your move.

Regards.

[rickv1957 72]

Looking good there so far!!!

[Anglo Traction 761]

Front Wheels done ( on left in the 2 pics).... Another reason why this is not a Resto. These Refurb wheels are Post '76' (compared to my pre 76 on the '72' Raider> right).  I had one 6.50" x 8" and one 4.50" x 8" on the C-120, so I'm using these for now, until I can find another 4.50" x 8".

The Refurbs will increase the Front Track width by 2 inches due to the Offset, so I'll see if it's an issue later

 

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Anglo Traction

[meadowfield 2,570]

Front Wheels done ( on left in the pics).... Another reason why this is not a Resto. These Refurb wheels are Post '76' (compared to my pre 76 on the '72' Raider> right). I had one 6.50" x 8" and one 4.50" x 8" on the C-120, so I'm using these for now, until I can find another 4.50 x 8".

The Refurbs will increase the Front Track width by 2 inches due to the Offset, so I'll see if it's an issue later.

ahh,

my raider has two different front wheels, the dish looks different on both - I've never measured them but is this the same odd apiring as you?

Happy to swap providing either wheel is any good!!!

mark

[Anglo Traction 761]

ahh,

my raider has two different front wheels, the dish looks different on both - I've never measured them but is this the same odd apiring as you?

Happy to swap providing either wheel is any good!!!

mark

Hi Mark, I'm not sure what you have?. If one of yours look's like the the ones on my Raider 12 (on right of Pics), then I do have one of those (6.50 x 8").

I'll have to check the condition, as they're holding up my Tranny at the moment.

Do you have a Narrow 4.50"wide x 8"Dia Rim?. I'm looking for one.

[meadowfield 2,570]

Richard,

I have no idea what they measure, but one of them has a deeper well/flange where the bead would sit on the outside edge. It's very noticeable when you look at them side by side.

I will measure and picture when I get back home on thursday.

They do look very similar in terms of mismatch to yours, but then they have been on opposite corners of the tractor and a side by side comparison is difficult

mark

[Anglo Traction 761]

Well it's been a while and my attentions have been concentrated on family things, so progress has been slow really.

I've done the main frame and married up the Tranny, machined the Woodruff Keys and set the Hubs on. I placed a Nylon Washer on the axle behind both Hubs, just in case the Hub(s) move in without me noticing to protect the Oil Seals.

Wheels were finished last week and had the tyres fitted yesterday.

Purchased a new Clutch Idler Pulley from U.S as the bearings were sloppy on the old one. When I checked the new one on the Tractor, I found the Spacer Boss was too big and was out of line by 3/32", so I had to press it out and machine it down. As you can possibly see in the pic, it lines up correctly now (Aftermarket purchasers beware). The piece of Railway Track in the background is going to be a universal Weight Front or Rear (36lb as it is)

Brake Band took some work to refurbish, but now good-as-new and fixed with S/Steel bolts. I've yet to make the 'Stand Off' brackets for the Clutch Spring so it clears the Rod and keeps the Brake Band straight-

 

 

On the front end in the next pic , I've had to replace the Spindles and Axle (thanks Michael) due to excessive wear on the originals. New S/Steel Lock Nuts on the Rods which I have refurbished to eliminate the 'play'. Also refurbed the Flange Bearing and sealed it with a foil gasket behind to keep dirt out.

I also found out why this Tractor had adjustable Steering Rods fitted. The lower Steering Rod end plate (the Rods fix to) was welded out-of-line with the Quadrant on the back end, so fixed length Rods would not fit, or would not allow equal lock/turn limit !. With the Offset of the Post '76' wheels fitted, it may give me a problem with Lock limit on left turn. When I find some narrow Rims, I will replace them and maybe chop/re-align and weld the Lower S/Rod-

 

 

That's it for now, so not much progress. Hopefully get more done soon.

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Anglo Traction

[stevebo-(Moderator) 8,330]

It is nice to see these kinds of restorations. You are doing it right and it shows-very nice work !!! :thumbs:

[meadowfield 2,570]

looking great Richard!

mark

[WH Raider10 17]

Looks great! I like that you pay attention for details,that's the way it should be done! :thumbs:

[farmer 1,075]

Richard,

You set a very high standard,

You know the saying....if a jobs worth doing.......

I have one of those,"how long is a piece of string questions"

You said you replaced your front axle because of excessive wear, in the future I hope to restore my Commando 8, and from a quick look, I think I will face the same problems. I thought about drilling out and bushing the 3 pivots,.....So my question... how worn out is "worn out" ? .

Keep up the good work!

[neil 2,409]

As always Richard , Quality work.

I would dearly love to see your work when its complete.

I am restoring/ renovating my 653 at the moment but its very slow, im waiting for some better weather and some free time .

If it comes out a quater as good as your i will be delighted.

Neil

[Anglo Traction 761]

Guys, Steve, Mark, P.J. , Rex & Neil - Thanks for the Positive Feedback.

I have one of those,"how long is a piece of string questions"

You said you replaced your front axle because of excessive wear, in the future I hope to restore my Commando 8, and from a quick look, I think I will face the same problems. I thought about drilling out and bushing the 3 pivots,.....So my question... how worn out is "worn out" ? .

Rex, I love your Avatar, Just can't remember where I've seen it before?.

As for the Axle, Firstly, I haven't thrown the old one away, as I've also pondered the idea of Bushings or Roller Bearings n seals.

Both the Spindle bores are worn Oval both Top and Bottom on opposite sides (inner top , outer bottom).

The the bearing faces of the Axle Bores are not very deep and were out-of-round by 1/16"(1.6mm). Add the wear on the Spindles and that says 'Sloppy' to me.

I didn't want to put different spindles into that Axle , as the bearing faces were different and may have had much reduced contact faces. So I went back to Michael to obtain the Axle the Spindles came from so they matched.

I can re-bore the Pivot Pin Bore in the old Axle and can mount it on the Cross Slide on the Lathe using a 'Between Centre' Boring Bar, then perhaps make a large Diameter Pin or use Needle Roller Bearings .

The spindle bores would need to be done on larger heavier equipment and the remaining surrounding metal may not be thick enough for NRBs, but as you say, may accept Bronze Bushes . Drilling these bores may produce more Negative Camber, as the drill will follow the path of least (and equal) resistance in an Oval Bore!. It won't produce a larger bore on the original Centre Line, only Boring will achieve this (to my knowledge).

I hope I've explained this clearly.

I don't like throwing things away that can be repaired like this, Spindles are iffy to refurbish (in my opinion), as applying heat i.e. welding to add metal to worn surfaces could affect the 'Normalised' Temper of the steel as a result of rapid cooling and there is a greater risk of them snapping. I would like to have the equipment to make some though!....

Hope it's not a 'Long Winded' response, but I have a problem with short anwser content compression!.

Happy Hammering

[farmer 1,075]

Richard,

Are you sure you dont work for an F1 team... Mclaren maybe ?

I'm looking at cornering around a shrub at 6mph, not the hair-pin at Monaco at 95

I've printed off your ponderings for future reference, as one day I'm sure I'll need them.

My Avatar, selected by my daughters (from TV's shaun the sheep) is supposed to reflect my personality.... But what do kids know ?!!

Please keep us updated with your progress.

[Stigian 1,234]

Wow Richard, that's a great build, you have an attention to detail that is way beyond me

Liking the wide ag's, what size are they?

[Anglo Traction 761]

Wow Richard, that's a great build, you have an attention to detail that is way beyond me

Liking the wide ag's, what size are they?

Hi Ian , Thanks mate . The Tyres are New Old Stock- Duro 23x10.50x12 4ply Tubeless. Got them for

[Anglo Traction 761]

Are you sure you dont work for an F1 team... Mclaren maybe ?

I'm looking at cornering around a shrub at 6mph, not the hair-pin at Monaco at 95

I've printed off your ponderings for future reference, as one day I'm sure I'll need them.

Hi Rex, Well I didn't know how long you wanted 'The Piece of String' ! ,

Yep! , Remembered where I saw your Avatar correctly. I'm gonna call my 2 tractors 'Wallis and Gommet' :thumbs:

[MikesRJ 552]

Very nice painting. Looks like it's going to be a show piece. :thumbs:

[C-Series14 15]

It is nice to see these kinds of restorations. You are doing it right and it shows-very nice work !!!

I agree with Stevebo...Every little detail makes for an awesome looking tractor in the end. :thumbs: